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Are Neckties Going To Go The Way Of Bowties?

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Whether one looks good is of course in the eye of the beholder (including yourself), and that eye is, as you say, strongly conditioned by prevailing norms of fashion, or perhaps by a shared ethos of non-conformism. But it seems a more or less an objective fact (to me ;-) that going tieless, whatever the occasion, subtracts a nice bit of color and design that almost always adds at least some interest to a look. Of course there are great monochrome, or color-comboed tieless looks as well, but the wholesale abandonment of the tie opens up space for some alternative color accessory, hence my outlandish call for untied, clasped neckwear in addition to scarves and ascots. (This is not an ad!)
Personally don't think people dislike or like the tie because it adds a bit of color or whatever. They dislike the open collar look because they associate it with a certain kind of downtown worker.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I think fashion mostly works on sociology, not aesthetics. People like and dislike things based on what groups are associated with that look, whether in reality or their minds. If the Duke of Windsor had decided to suddenly ditch the tie in the early 20th century, back when fashion more strongly flowed from the top-down, everyone on this board would be talking about how ties look bad.

I think people dislike the look because they associate it with the guys like those Robinhood execs. I think it's fine because I've seen some very cool people pull it off (e.g. Tom Ford, George, Jeffery, etc). And I mostly ignore those Robinhood guys. But I think this has little resonance with traditionalists because traditional guys generally don't care about the concept of "cool," they like "elegance" and "respectable."
 
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pasadena man

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Not in Britain. Colourful and patterned (and frankly horrible) dress shirts are much more normal...
One menswear writer described a certain strain of British CM which aimed to combine the greatest number of patterns, colors, and textures possible without collapsing the souffle, as perhaps best exemplified by the Duke of Windsor.
 
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UrbanComposition

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I don't know where this sense of awesomeness comes from when dudes say "I'm amazing because I dress for myself and anyone who thinks about his setting is a weakminded tool." It reminds me of the South Park episode when Stan joins a group of goths to be a non-conformist and ends up looking like all the other goths. Wearing a tie is not anti-conformist, and believe me, it's far from cool.

People dress the way they do because

1) they like it
2) it makes them feel special (dressed up)
3) it makes them feel part of a group
4) for the occasion

Personally I do the first three but it's generally tapered by the forth. I like western clothing a lot, but mostly wear it casually in the countryside. I'm a huge fan of suits but wouldn't wear them to the gym. I really like black tie, but only wear it at the opera/ballet.

I'm not saying my way is better or the others are worse. I just care a little bit more about what others might think depending on the situation I'm in. @Andy57 wears suits pretty much everywhere because it makes him feel good, and I think that's great. He looks amazing, and it fits his personality. But I've never heard him thumb his nose at dressed-down styles; they're just not for him. He also doesn't much care what others think about his clothes, which is absolutely fine.
 

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Cover of WSJ this morning. Saw it as I walking out of my building this morning in the paper stack piled by the door.

Can we all agree it's better than the Jim Jordan shirt & tie but no coat look? ;) I imagine he picked that up from a discount store manager. Nothing wrong with the job ... just the look.
 

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This is not a knock, but most people on this forum look like the guy on the right. If that's your vibe, then you have to work with your vibe. In that case, you might look better in a conservative suit and tie. Jeffery here (the guy on the left) often wears suits without ties. He has a certain look and vibe about him that allows him to pull things off. In this photo, he's wearing a black suit with a black shirt and no tie (three levels of verboten on StyleForum). Yet, he looks great. Arguably better than the guy on the right, and not just because the guy on the right is wearing a white t-shirt underneath his button-up.

Sometimes I think the rules here can be so stifling and conservative, they push everyone into looking like the guy on the right when there are other possibilities for men.


View attachment 1645566
I like Jeffrey's look. Of course, every single time I reach for a black suit the ghost of Colin Harvey says "just put that back". But there was a time in the 80's when I thought I was fashion forward. I'd wear a black and white glen plaid (one with a light blue windowpane and one with a pink windowpane) suit with a black turtleneck (wool but rather light) from Crimson. It worked but was very dressy for New York's East Village where everyone wore black (pullover, pants, shoes). Then I'd put on my brown derbies and get eyerolls.
 
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smittycl

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One menswear writer described a certain strain of British CM which aimed to combine the greatest number of patterns, colors, and textures possible without collapsing the souffle, as perhaps best exemplified by the Prince of Wales.
He was likely referring to the celebrated douchebag and traitor to his country the former PoW and future Duke of Windsor.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Scrolled through this article posted earlier. Personally don't think anyone's look would have been dramatically improved by a tie. They would have been improved, however, if they swapped out their tan shoes for dark brown.

The crimes in today's business dress aren't about the loss of a tie, but the shoes (e.g., tan shoes in outfits that don't go with tan shoes; the dress-shoe-sneaker hybrids; and sneakers like Allbirds); the poor quality tailoring; and outfits that are just a dress shirt with chinos (no jacket).


 

TheChihuahua

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to be honest, does the really look all that different than west 37th st would have looked 15 years ago in late July/early august? Seems pretty standard. And the jacket during the dog days of summer was always tough to pull off (assuming this was taken recently?)

44F406C1-0615-4CD5-9BC5-22E0C9E06599.jpeg


but I do think as people get back to the office, people like nice things. People want to spend their money on appearance.With this type of look, I don’t know what to say really in this respect. Everyone sort of looks the same, how to distinguish oneself? Spend money on the more expensive button down? Take better care of your shoes? Nicer belt?

to me that’s why I don’t think that the work environment (especially in cities) is going to go too casual. The look you see in this NY Times photo is not surprising, that picture could have been taken a decade ago from my experience in the city. Heck,go down to Wall Street and broad and you will see far more people in t-shirts and shorts posing for tourist pictures today than you will see actual professionals in suits.

Ultimately though, there is a reason why professional wear has its place For many reasons. Build confidence/sense of authority with clients, display an aura of success, show co-workers and superiors that you appreciate attention to detail, show respect to the moment and the situation, Wanting to distinguish between “at work” hours from personal hours, etc…

due to this I do think that professional attire will always remain prevalent. Of course there will always be some who don’t appreciate it, or see the need for it, but that’s been the case for years now.
 

smittycl

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Scrolled through this article posted earlier. Personally don't think anyone's look would have been dramatically improved by a tie. They would have been improved, however, if they swapped out their tan shoes for dark brown.

The crimes in today's business dress aren't about the loss of a tie, but the shoes (e.g., tan shoes in outfits that don't go with tan shoes; the dress-shoe-sneaker hybrids; and sneakers like Allbirds); the poor quality tailoring; and outfits that are just a dress shirt with chinos (no jacket).


It’s a big issue in DC as well. Guys in dark charcoal suits, sober tie, and bright Strands in walnut. Ugh.
 

TheChihuahua

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Also, for the no tie look…

nothing looks worse than an undershirt visible around the neckline.
so….
Does one wear a v-neck undershirt? Does that show a bit?
Or does one go sans-undershot, and does that compromise the longevity of the shirt?

wearing a tie takes away the concern of which top button to utilize and whether or not one can utilize an under shirt.
 

TheChihuahua

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It’s a big issue in DC as well. Guys in dark charcoal suits, sober tie, and bright Strands in walnut. Ugh.
embrace it.
the Navyor royal blue suit with the tan shoe has been a bit thing in NYC for 15+ years now. By this point, it is accepted. You don’t have to like it, but in an age when we are debating people wearing sweatpants and athleisurewear to work, at least these people are trying.

and really, in a day where people arewearing sweatpants and athleisurewear to work, any idea of “classical menswear” and the need to cosplay a 1950’s London banker’s outfit is sort of nothing more than holding onto some bygone days. The tan shoes with darker suits have been around for a while now (most of my adult life), it’s not going away, it’s accepted by most (outside of historical cosplay fans), so the only thing left to do is embrace it.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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A lot of business dress today looks like this photo below: a subpar suit or sport coat with tan shoes. Sneaker-dress-shoe hybrids. A dress shirt with chinos or slacks. Allbirds or On Cloud sneakers. Sometimes a CP knock-off.

Not sure the guy in the suit here would look that much better with a tie. The suit is in motion, so it's hard to judge the cut of this particular suit, but you often see this type of dress downtown. The suit is often not very good and the wearer is often in warm-hued, walnut-colored shoes with a navy suit, often accented with fun socks. There are often too many bad things about the outfit for the tie to make any real difference.


merlin_192101520_2918f72b-b590-45c7-a1e8-0f4e382fd0fa-superJumbo.jpeg




If the cut of the suit works with a tie-free look, and the suit is cut well, and the person isn't wearing tan shoes, I think it's fine and much better than the looks above.


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Some people, however, don't have the kind of look or lifestyle necessary to wear things like that. As mentioned earlier, Mowry in the last photo just isn't that kind of guy. I think it's more about creating a certain look that accords with your lifestyle, environment, etc. It's about developing an eye. Sometimes a "business suit" looks fine without a tie and sometimes it doesn't.
 

thatboyo

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to me that’s why I don’t think that the work environment (especially in cities) is going to go too casual.
Not sure how you can say this when it’s been increasingly casual over the last decade.

I agree people will want to spend on nice things for appearance, I just don’t think it’s going to the traditional CM items.
 

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