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Are Neckties Going To Go The Way Of Bowties?

TheChihuahua

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This is not a knock, but most people on this forum look like the guy on the right. If that's your vibe, then you have to work with your vibe. In that case, you might look better in a conservative suit and tie. Jeffery here (the guy on the left) often wears suits without ties. He has a certain look and vibe about him that allows him to pull things off. In this photo, he's wearing a black suit with a black shirt and no tie (three levels of verboten on StyleForum). Yet, he looks great. Arguably better than the guy on the right, and not just because the guy on the right is wearing a white t-shirt underneath his button-up.

Sometimes I think the rules here can be so stifling and conservative, they push everyone into looking like the guy on the right when there are other possibilities for men.


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so true

that whole Biz Caj look reminds me of the guy on the right. It’s not a good look.

about 10-15 years ago when Biz Caj was becoming more common in NYC I embraced the whole sports coat or gold button blazer and trousers with loafers look. I grew to strongly dislike it as it seemed lazy and uninspired and reeked of a middle management drone uniform.

the whole idea of “I don’t have to wear a tie, so now I am going to dress like I am a manager at a vhs rental store” is depressing. And nobody will ever convince me that denim is more comfortable than wool trousers. Denim is thick and heavy, and while easy to maintain is far less comfortable than a proper wool pair of trousers.
 
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TheChihuahua

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The guy on the right is Robert Mowry, a long-time art curator at Harvard. I assume he's not worth 20 million, as people generally don't make that much money in academia. But who knows.

Jeffery (the guy on the left) is an art writer. He used to post on this board, but not anymore. He has a very outlandish, 1970s Texan, illicit smuggler look. I love it. It fits him, his occupation, and his lifestyle.

Mowry is also generally well-dressed. But he wouldn't look right in the kind of fashion-forward stuff worn by George or Jeffery. It's just not his vibe, for lack of a better term.



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I've been interested in getting a watch that I can wear with my casualwear, which is mostly workwear nowadays. I talked to George about it once and told him I'm interested in buying a Sub. He said that he thinks I should get a Rolex Explorer 1016 instead, as he thinks it suits my personality better. I'm not that hung up on the idea of dressing for one's "true self" and am fine wearing things that are just fun. But I recognize that sometimes things just don't fit a person's vibe.
1993 called….
It wants its gold button blazer and button down collars back…
 
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TheChihuahua

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It seems that a lot of traditional higher end off the rack suit makers are marketing their suits without ties.

just for note, bergdorf’s Zegna collection

not commenting on whether I like this look or not, but these are a couple pretty traditional menswear icons taking this position that it’s not only acceptable, but is a desirable and aspirational look that they are actively marketing.

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smittycl

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It seems that a lot of traditional higher end off the rack suit makers are marketing their suits without ties.

just for note, bergdorf’s Zegna collection

not commenting on whether I like this look or not, but these are a couple pretty traditional menswear icons taking this position that it’s not only acceptable, but is a desirable and aspirational look that they are actively marketing.

View attachment 1647330


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So is Lardini and Canali to a lesser degree.

 

TheChihuahua

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So is Lardini and Canali to a lesser degree.

Yeah, most of the higher end off the rack brands are marketing this look.

again, not interjecting my personal taste into this observation, but these aren’t trendy outlets with upstart brands. This are pretty traditional menswear establishments not only endorsing the look but pushing it as Part of their marketing.

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double00

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i'll go for personal taste here: worsted supers are just terrible this looks like daytime pjs
 

TheChihuahua

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Like I said, I’m not endorsing or speaking negatively on the no tie suit look. Just observing that very mainstream off the rack makers and merchants are pushing this look very hard.

we aren’t talking about some Macy’s or JC Penny’s or Target push. This is from some fairly reputable names for this type of clothing.

canali’s website has more examples without ties than with ties.

and I am a bit surprised to see the extent of this marketing. Perhaps they sense thedecreased role of the tie so are showing the versatility of their product moving forward? Sort of, if the necktie is being reduced we don’t want our product to become too married to that accessory?

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UrbanComposition

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Can confirm this is a thing, but it's mostly for guys who wear suits that don't have to. In other words, people that are fans of dressing up a bit.

How do you get people who don't wear ties (now a large part of the population) to keep buying suits? Simple: you show how to wear them without ties.

Like it or not, casualization has reached most of society. There are a few holdouts, but unless a mass social movement happens, the last 100 years of menswear has shown that this trend will continue. It's a bit sad, because I personally like dressing in traditional CM clothing, but it is what it is.

However, many guys, especially CM guys who are used to this look, have a hard time envisioning how to repurpose the suit in a way that is still "nice," just not as formal. I'm not saying I like all of these looks, but I can tell you that out of everyone I talked to on my recent trip to Florence and Milan, less than 20% of people in booths wore a tie. These are people that ostensibly should be promoting all the ways to wear their clothes, including ties. You could argue that it would make sense to promote their ties, but relatively few did. Suits and sport coats, yes, despite the heat.

As much as I love ties and worsted suits, I'm can't halt trends. I don't mind dressing up, and if you don't care what people think, that's fine, but I'll admit to wanting to stick out only so much, and if that means ditching the tie if I don't need one, than so be it.
 

dieworkwear

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I think 90% of a tailored outfit is about the cut of the suit, and the majority of that percentage is about the cut of the jacket. If you have a well-cut jacket, then you will look great regardless. But most people don't wear very nice tailoring, so they look bad regardless if they're wearing a tie or not.

A tie looks out of place in most situations nowadays in the Bay Area. Outside of weddings, funerals, and court appearances, most people don't wear a tie. That doesn't mean you can't wear one, of course. But it may make you stand out in a way that doesn't feel comfortable.
 
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RSS

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The few here who know me know that I was introduced to Savile Row in the 70's. I was always a coat and tie man until a few years back. About ten years go I started occasionally dropping the tie. In the arts, that was just fine. With retirement and COVID, other than my father's memorial, I can't tell you the last time I wrore a tie. Now they just sit in my closet. I do have a niece getting married in November. I may get out a few ties for that.

I do still wear a coat when going out in pubic ... and sometimes just walking around the grounds. I live in the country in a cool climate ... the tweed still gets used.
 
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twclark3

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"I'll admit to wanting to stick out only so much" - UrbanComposition

"That doesn't mean you can't wear one, of course. But it may make you stand out in a way that doesn't feel comfortable." - dieworkwear

Men's fashion: the fine art of conformity.
 

twclark3

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In the Times today: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/02/business/wall-street-casual.html

"Although banks haven’t sent out formal memos, their informal message is that returning employees should feel free to dress appropriately for the occasion — and that during a summer with few in-person client meetings, more relaxed attire is permissible. Jeans have even shown up on trading floors, and bankers have a wealth of opportunities to spring a familiar workplace joke: What’s with the tie? Got a job interview?"

Have to say, the looks in this article are pretty uninspiring.
 

FlyingMonkey

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Men's fashion: the fine art of conformity.
Err, yes. Welcome to the real world. Most fashion is about conforming with some conformity or other, whether it's the culturally dominant one, or a particular subcultural style. There are a much smaller number of people who believe they are 'different', and most of the time they are merely part of a subculture without realizing, and there are a very small number who are genuinely unique and either nonconformists, outsiders or style leaders.

However, the issue for everyone remains the same: Do you look good? Do you feel good? This, really, has got nothing to do with what kind of conformist you are, or even whether you are a nonconformist.
 
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johng70

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Err, yes. Welcome to the real world. Most fashion is about conforming with some conformity or other, whether it's the culturally dominant one, or a particular subcultural style. There are a much smaller number of people who believe they are 'different', and most of the time they are merely part of a subculture without realizing, and there are very small number who are genuinely unqiue and either nonconformists, outsiders or style leaders.

However, the issue for everyone remains the same: Do you look good? Do you feel good? This, really, has got nothing to do with what kind of conformist you are, or even whether you are a nonconformist.
Precisely. When I started in the professional world I wore suits every day. Over the years, I've worked with a lot of IT consultants who wore suits a lot longer than many professions. The ones that look the worst are the ones that try to wear their suits dressed down. The ones that have gone out and bought slacks and a better variety of shirts (as opposed to the solid white and blue that work so well with suits) look far batter. Shirts have taken over for ties as the way to add character to the outfit. Myself, I much prefer being able to buy a variety of shirts/pants all for the same price as a single suit. I have blazers I wear on occasion. But, just my personal experience having worn suits daily and then not - I see very few men that look better in the suit-without-tie than those who construct an outfit better designed to be without a tie than a suit.
 

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