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Are Neckties Going To Go The Way Of Bowties?

smittycl

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D23E44A5-BC73-4567-9CD9-C3933A22AE2B.gif
 

DapperPhilly

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Thanks for the feedback and your good wishes. What's interesting is that these are immediately perceived as *ties*, but worn in a relaxed, accessorized fashion, so they are not seen as weird, just different. When that became clear to me, I was able to wear them fearlessly. Women in particular seem more open to the concept, go figure. Plus they see you as having the guts to actually wear something different. I had a drug cop asking for one at a meeting I attended, believe it or not (it was a hot day and he wore a standard tie, poor guy). Given the long and varied history of men's neckwear, this is but one variation on a theme, one which probably won't see the light of day. Many are called but few are chosen, dad used to say.
" so they are not seen as weird, just different."
Sorry, but that depends on who you ask.
 

monkey66

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I don't believe this is a 'one size fits all' discussion.

We can't talk about 'fitting in' as a macro statement as there are so many different communities. The office in London, or DC or Toyoko are all very different, as is the social scene.

Also it very much depends on where one is on their journey. 20 years ago I was only interested in jeans and trainers and had very strong thoughts on what was right. I would never had worn cm out of choice, now I do.

As was mentioned sales number tell the wider picture but that is not the only story.
 

DapperPhilly

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If you think *these* are weird, then you need to get out more. :cool:
We frequent South Beach where every wannabe trend setter and the supposedly uber cool walk Ocean Drive wearing the silly, ridiculous and absurd.
I know these types when I see them. Maybe not.
Your descriptions of how people react to your ensemble does give me hope in that politeness still exists.

Do they ever ask "Have you forgotten to tie your tie?" "Did it not come with instructions?" "May I show you how to tie your tie?"
 
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DapperPhilly

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Fred Astaire wearing a tie as a belt.

 

Stylish Guy

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America is a very liberal country (liberal meaning small-l liberal, as in 18th-century ideas, not liberal meaning "Democrat" or "progressive" or "leftist"). It has very little interest or respect for formality and old customs, at least relative to other countries.

For the last hundred years, Americans have championed a much more casual way of dressing. Things such as penny loafers, the two-piece suit as daywear, the unlined polo collar/ button-down collar, etc are all very casual innovations for their time. After the Second World War, this casualization accelerated with the culture wars. People who identified with the rocker-rebel didn't want to be associated with The Man in the Gray Flannel suit. This accelerated again with the Causal Friday movement. And again with the tech boom, where a certain dressed-down culture supposedly reflected a new meritocracy -- the college hacker in his bedroom versus the old established banker types.

But fundamentally, all these things root back to a very American identity about democracy and liberalism. You rarely see major swings in the other direction because Americans dislike the idea of authority, hierarchy, pretense, etc. People want to see cool, relaxed, democratic, relatable, "every man," etc. The casualization you see today was still around in the early 1900s. The things we read as "formal" today were once considered sweatpants for a different generation.
Yep Mark Zuckerberg is really just a regular guy in his hoodie and $300 T-Shirts.
 

Phileas Fogg

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I think generalizations to a particular country, culture and/or political outlook vis a vie dressing and clothing styles is a bit simplistic.

This kind of stuff is going on globally and their are plenty of people around, both here as well as abroad who will still abide by classic menswear maxims when the opportunity presents itself.

I’ve never liked using the workplace as an example as these are usually very specific cultural ecosystems with their own rules and norms. Showing up to work wearing a suit and tie everyday when everyone else is attired more casually can make one look foppish.
 

smittycl

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No, it would not. :slapfight:
 

Mercman

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America is a very liberal country (liberal meaning small-l liberal, as in 18th-century ideas, not liberal meaning "Democrat" or "progressive" or "leftist"). It has very little interest or respect for formality and old customs, at least relative to other countries.

For the last hundred years, Americans have championed a much more casual way of dressing. Things such as penny loafers, the two-piece suit as daywear, the unlined polo collar/ button-down collar, etc are all very casual innovations for their time. After the Second World War, this casualization accelerated with the culture wars. People who identified with the rocker-rebel didn't want to be associated with The Man in the Gray Flannel suit. This accelerated again with the Causal Friday movement. And again with the tech boom, where a certain dressed-down culture supposedly reflected a new meritocracy -- the college hacker in his bedroom versus the old established banker types.

But fundamentally, all these things root back to a very American identity about democracy and liberalism. You rarely see major swings in the other direction because Americans dislike the idea of authority, hierarchy, pretense, etc. People want to see cool, relaxed, democratic, relatable, "every man," etc. The casualization you see today was still around in the early 1900s. The things we read as "formal" today were once considered sweatpants for a different generation.
Thanks, that's an interesting and informative post - with a lot of validity, I think.

I'm English and UK based, and it's fair to say that a lot of the casualisation of menswear we see over here has American roots. From jeans and button-down shirts to loafers and dress-down Fridays. They've all made their way here from the US, one way or another.

English dress has traditionally been more formal and structured but many of the original liberal thinkers - from Hobbes and Locke to Mill and Adam Smith - were British and have undoubtedly had a strong influence in the UK in may different ways. So, I'm wondering why we've always been more socially conservative in terms of dress and many other matters.
 

radicaldog

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English dress has traditionally been more formal and structured but many of the original liberal thinkers - from Hobbes and Locke to Mill and Adam Smith - were British and have undoubtedly had a strong influence in the UK in may different ways. So, I'm wondering why we've always been more socially conservative in terms of dress and many other matters.
Because there hasn't been a revolution on that island since 1651.
 

Mirage-

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Some people look great in a formal suit without a tie, and in social settings. Tom Ford comes to mind

View attachment 1644208View attachment 1644210
I also don't think Tom Ford looks good at all there. To me, the formality of the suit completely clashes not only with the absence of tie, but also with showing so much skin. The collar also collapses since he left like 3 buttons unbuttoned, which some people intentionally do to make the outfit casual but again clashes with the suit. The glasses certainly don't help.
To me, he looks like a pretentious rich jerk who is flaunting that he can do whatever he wants (and he can, but so can I judge him for it). It probably also doesn't help that he also sounds like one, in the few occasions I've heard him speak, but oh well, feel free to accuse me of bias if you want.


This is the best formal look without tie that comes to my mind, and it's still a separate.
That being said, I think the one piece collar actually does a great job at replacing the tie in framing the face and creating a deep V without showing half your chest (which I might do under the summer sun when in the streets, but is definitely not formal) and also without collapsing. Hopefully more brands/shirtmakers adopt it.
So if for some reason one wanted to wear a formal suit without tie, I'd recommend that.

1627376483781.png
 

Phileas Fogg

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I also don't think Tom Ford looks good at all there. To me, the formality of the suit completely clashes not only with the absence of tie, but also with showing so much skin. The collar also collapses since he left like 3 buttons unbuttoned, which some people intentionally do to make the outfit casual but again clashes with the suit. The glasses certainly don't help.
To me, he looks like a pretentious rich jerk who is flaunting that he can do whatever he wants (and he can, but so can I judge him for it). It probably also doesn't help that he also sounds like one, in the few occasions I've heard him speak, but oh well, feel free to accuse me of bias if you want.


This is the best formal look without tie that comes to my mind, and it's still a separate.
That being said, I think the one piece collar actually does a great job at replacing the tie in framing the face and creating a deep V without showing half your chest (which I might do under the summer sun when in the streets, but is definitely not formal) and also without collapsing. Hopefully more brands/shirtmakers adopt it.
So if for some reason one wanted to wear a formal suit without tie, I'd recommend that.

View attachment 1644772
exactly! Ties aren’t necessary all the time and the above pic is an example of this. Men have plenty of options when it comes to casual wear without having to force the issue with a suit. I wonder how wearing a tuxedo with an open shirt collar would go over.
 

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