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Are European Women more classy than American Women?

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Soph, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    assumption being that intelligence and sluttiness have an inverse correlation

    I don't think you can draw an correlation between intelligence and lack of promiscuity. At least not in my experience.
     
  2. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    The word "classy" should always be spelled with Ks: klassy.
     
  3. countdemoney

    countdemoney Senior member

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  4. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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  5. Violinist

    Violinist Senior member

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    I'm in agreement on that- I've attended both a rather upper-(middle-) class HS in the US and Germany and I've come to some conclusions: While the average girl attending a german Gymnasium is classier, they are also far more intelligent on average (due to the division in school systems) and hence less slutty (assumption being that intelligence and sluttiness have an inverse correlation). However, german girls from the same sample of intelligence are probably as slutty as what I've experienced at my US HS. One thing I did notice though- on the outside they were more prudish than here but I had many things happen to me where I just had to blush (bags with underwear; girls asking me to do very private things to them straightforward; etc.).

    Honestly though, I thing this is an issue of social values within a social strato and has little to do with countries.


    What stupidity. As if intelligence has anything to do with how sexual someone is. In fact, I'd say that an intelligent woman realizes far better than some bimbo daddy's girl that sex is actually not a big deal, and if it's done safely it's far healthier than drinking. Most guys like to call girls sluts because they're pissed they're not getting any. To me "classy" (a word that in and of itself is an oxymoron), is someone who is cultured but at the same time unique, and interesting. I think the European education system lends itself moreso to that end than we do in America. Frankly, most career women, like 28 year old investment bankers are the most boring, consumeristic, trump wannabe morons in the world. There's nothing classy about this 80s revival you find at B and law schools. To me there's nothing sexy or classy about being engrossed in a meaningless career... if it's your means to an end, great, but I have to disagree that just a woman with an education makes them "classier". And before anyone says that I'm chauvinist, take into account that I despise male Gordon Gekko worshippers too.
     
  6. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    I detest the term classy and its variants; Sinclair Lewis was terribly on point.
     
  7. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    I detest the term classy and its variants; Sinclair Lewis was terribly on point.

    I'd be interested to know what Sinclair Lewis had to say on the matter, since I don't know off hand. In my experience, classy, high-class, ritzy and so forth are lower- or lower middle-class designations for what is perceived as upper-class sensibilities.

    In any case, this thread is less about how refined, educated or tasteful different women are than it is about how fit or attractive. While one often entails the other, these are distinctly different questions -- except perhaps if we're discussing whatever is meant by "classy."
     
  8. Earthmover

    Earthmover Senior member

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    I don't want to get too much into the debate, but I want to point out that there's this tragic cultural pressure for women to downplay their intelligence and choose non-intelligent hobbies. I understand that I may be generalizing, but I find it so hard to find American women who read seriously or care about art or other "high" cultural matters. I know that high schools don't emphasize this point (in fact, it's used as a means to ostracize; the bookish ones) in the US, and there's just too much emphasis on "having a good time" and "work hard, party hard" mentality that leaves less room for more introspective, intellectual hobbies.

    Based on anecdotal evidence, I find that women from european nations tend to read more "intelligent" works of literature (This is, of course, purely anecdotal, but try to find American women who've read Kundera or Kerouac compared to European women) than the american counterparts. Perhaps serious reading isn't as stigmatized as is in America, or it's just a bigger social force. In any case, it bothers me a lot. I love TV and trashy novels as much as the next guy, but damn, does your favorite book HAVE to be Bridget Jones' Diary or Devil Wears Prada? It drives me crazy.

    I see this also with art, music, opera, ballet, etc.


    To show my biases even further, I find that, ceteris paribus, if there's two women, one euro and one american, that have similar tastes in literature (that is, serious literature), the european woman is invariably more attractive. My theory is that even as a hot girl, people don't look down on you for serious reading in Europe, whereas American culture expects hot girls to be dumb not pursue intellectual things, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

    Blanket generalizations, I know. But I don't think it's completely incorrect.
     
  9. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    What's the relationship between what books you read and how classy you are?
     
  10. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    The problem with this entire thread has to do with the word classy. Its meaning is unclear and people are writing random shit that may or may not have anything to do with what the original poster had in mind.

    How attractive European women are relative to American women, or how intelligent European women are compared to American women, or how slutty European women are compared to American women would be easier questions to address.
     
  11. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    And really, wouldn't "classier" be a more sophisticated way of saying it than "more classy"?
     
  12. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    Classy is one of those words that can be used euphemistically as well along with nice, smart, good-hearted, etc. It seems stupid that in our society certain compliments can have a negative connotation. I remember someone saying a certain girl was classy and the guy they were talking to responded, "oh, so shes not hot then?" heh
     
  13. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    Classy is one of those words that can be used euphemistically as well along with nice, smart, good-hearted, etc. It seems stupid that in our society certain compliments can have a negative connotation. I remember someone saying a certain girl was classy and the guy they were talking to responded, "oh, so shes not hot then?" heh

    lol.
     
  14. Soph

    Soph Senior member

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    classy - elegant and fashionable; "classy clothes"; "a classy dame"; "a posh restaurant"; "a swish pastry shop on the Rue du Bac"- Julia Child
    posh, swish
    ----Classy is consistently defined as elegant/having good taste in
    1. Dress
    2. Manners
    3. Lifestyle
    --or a place that is classy
    --or a car that is classy
    ---classy=elegance and good taste---

    Now what is elegant and good taste for one may not be for the other, but some things are universal: good manners, taste

    stylish, fashionable - having elegance or taste or refinement in manners or dress; "a little less posh but every bit as stylish as Lord Peter Wimsey"; "the stylish resort of Gstadd"
     
  15. Earthmover

    Earthmover Senior member

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    What's the relationship between what books you read and how classy you are?

    To me, following intellectual pursuits has an intermediate connection to "classiness". Obviously we're arguing over the basics of what it means, but I think it's one of those "you'll know it when you see it" sort of thing. And in my mind, a classy person is well-educated in various aspects of human pursuits (and a reasonable hunger for knowledge) with good manners and a general sense of goodness with regards to the world. Books are not a precise way to quantify these things, but it's definitely an indicator.

    To put it somewhat crassly, I think what finishing schools back in the day were trying to achieve was to give young ladies "class." And in that vein, they learned proper etiquette, manner, way of speaking, and given a working knowledge about conversational world topics and books with timeless themes. So while I don't think reading books = classy, I think there is a fairly decent correlation.
     
  16. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    To me, following intellectual pursuits has an intermediate connection to "classiness". Obviously we're arguing over the basics of what it means, but I think it's one of those "you'll know it when you see it" sort of thing. And in my mind, a classy person is well-educated in various aspects of human pursuits (and a reasonable hunger for knowledge) with good manners and a general sense of goodness with regards to the world. Books are not a precise way to quantify these things, but it's definitely an indicator.

    To put it somewhat crassly, I think what finishing schools back in the day were trying to achieve was to give young ladies "class." And in that vein, they learned proper etiquette, manner, way of speaking, and given a working knowledge about conversational world topics and books with timeless themes. So while I don't think reading books = classy, I think there is a fairly decent correlation.


    So, let's say, someone who has to work doing physical labor for 12 hours per day to provide for his family with a very meager salary that gets them just enough to eat and pay for necessities can never be "classy" in your mind, right? On the other hand, someone who is very educated, has a good job, makes a lot of money, reads for pleasure, but cheats on his wife and doesn't care a lick about his kids is "classy."

    I think we have a very different definition of what "classy" means. Which just points out the ambiguity in this thread.
     
  17. Tomasso

    Tomasso Senior member

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    I've noticed that the people who fit the description of being "Classy" (elegant, poised, courteous, well spoken, etc) don't seem to have that particular word in their vocabulary.
     
  18. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    I'd be interested to know what Sinclair Lewis had to say on the matter, since I don't know off hand. In my experience, classy, high-class, ritzy and so forth are lower- or lower middle-class designations for what is perceived as upper-class sensibilities.

    In any case, this thread is less about how refined, educated or tasteful different women are than it is about how fit or attractive. While one often entails the other, these are distinctly different questions -- except perhaps if we're discussing whatever is meant by "classy."

    His Babbitt was very scathing on those who aspire to class. In fact, he dedicated it to Edith Wharton.
     
  19. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    And really, wouldn't "classier" be a more sophisticated way of saying it than "more classy"?
    .
    You'd better hope not, or they might start correcting your grammar.
    .
     
  20. Earthmover

    Earthmover Senior member

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    So, let's say, someone who has to work doing physical labor for 12 hours per day to provide for his family with a very meager salary that gets them just enough to eat and pay for necessities can never be "classy" in your mind, right? On the other hand, someone who is very educated, has a good job, makes a lot of money, reads for pleasure, but cheats on his wife and doesn't care a lick about his kids is "classy."

    I think we have a very different definition of what "classy" means. Which just points out the ambiguity in this thread.


    I don't quite understand this antagonism and mild anger bubbling underneath. Classy is a word. It's roots are in the word "Class." So yes, there is some element of class to being classy. That said, if you read what I am saying carefully, I was stating clearly that I was making generalizations and using imperfect heuristics to get at an imperfect definition.

    The latter type of person is not classy [again, my personal definition]. I don't know where you get the presumption that I believe this to the very core of my heart, but you are wrong. Since people are not mindreaders we have to use what we can observe to come to conclusions about people. Sure, it's very possible that without knowing a person's home life, I may think a "polished" (another loaded word) person to be classy, but that judgment always comes with the caveat that if he acts like a cad, I can rescind and change my characterization of the person. I'm pretty sure think cheating on wife and neglect of kids is not nice.

    That said, classy does imply some amount of polish to a person. I can't see why a person who does physical labor can't be classy [in fact, the first example you used describe my parents in our tougher days to a T, and they are definitely "classy"]. But it doesn't mean that a person can be classy while being ill-mannered (even if out of ignorance rather than boorishness), and to me personally, without showing some curiosity about the world they live in. There are no class boundaries that prevent a person from reading good books or newspapers (yes, it's harder, sometimes really hard if your situation in life made it impossible for you to learn to read in the first place) or to put it in most basic form, observing human life as it comes. As Emily Post once said, "Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use."

    The reason I placed a premium on reading good books is that it says volumes (zing!) about a person's natural curiosity of their world (and other worlds). Books give insight into how people think, shows you what was proper historically, and offer other tidbits of knowledge that help make a polished person. Anti-intellectualism is a strong cultural phenomenon in America, and in its extreme, the anti-intellectualism reaches as far as people not caring to observe the people around them, and if people don't care about others... I doubt they'll be a classy person. That said, I know how imperfect this rubric is; I just think it's as good a shortcut as any.

    In case you were curious, I do not find you classy, based on your internet persona. Perhaps you shouldn't take giant leaps to conclusions. I do not think myself classy either, if it comforts you any.
     

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