Are bomber jackets ok in a business casual setting?

[Salad]

And now they're trying to take over the aloha shirt. Can't let them get away with that. And remember in Charlottesville when they were wearing white polo shirts and chinos? LOL, they can have that ****.

 

[Despos]

Have a client now buying trousers, shirts and jackets for two of his employees. His business is finance and these guys are around 30 but have no discernment that what you wear to the office is different than going to the grocery store. He just wants them to look professional. Not over dressed or formal. Just improve the packaging so clients aren’t questioning their abilities.

 

[dieworkwear]

Just improve the packaging so clients aren’t questioning their abilities.

Back when I was in grad school, I was sitting in a seminar one day when a complicated math question came up. Because of how I look -- an Asian man in a sport coat -- everyone turned to me for the answer, including the professor. I don't know any math, so I just kind of shrugged my shoulders and gave one of those "I dunno" faces.

For the rest of the semester, no one ever looked at me again for math answers.

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

I would just argue that I think guys overestimate the career advancement thing.

I think it's true that there's a "mirrortocracy." People favor those who they believe to be part of their tribe. But if you're truly talented at your work, I think it will show. And a uniform can only go so far in the mirrortocracy -- you also have to adopt values, manners of speaking, hobbies, pop-cultural interests, etc. That will vary from place to place. Is someone really going to take mirrortocracy that far?

I think there's a middle ground, and guys can often push the limits a little further than they assume. I think self-regulation often goes too far, and springs more from self-consciousness. People are more sensitive about sticking out than punishing people who stick out. At least in my field, there are tons of people who had made it very far in their career and they dress in all sorts of ways -- sloppy, sharp, hippie, etc.

Clothes only go so far. So long as you're a nice person, talented in your work, and can do your job, I think that has a bigger effect. I think you can dress within a range -- it doesn't have to be totally weird clothes or utter conformity. But a lot of guys are afraid of wearing anything but the blandest clothes, which they explain away with career advancement but I think comes more from a very deep-seated fear of sticking out, like high school.

In many offices today, even wearing a sport coat can make you feel like you're entering the office with a cape. If you dress casually and don't want to stick out, you're stuck in this "Everlane" world.

I agree that I’m probably more sensitive about sticking out than about punishing others for sticking out. I like when I see someone with style usually

my workplace was all suits until about 2 yrs ago. So very conservative (but they wouldn’t send you home if you wore brown shoes).

we had a new guy who wore pocket squares. People noticed. Some commented to him about it. You have to be ok with getting reactions like that. I had a light blue summer suit— same thing— people would remark on it.

It gets easier as you become known and people know your worth— then that’s just you. But for a guy starting out it’s helpful to know that it might be very much like high school in some ways

 

[mak1277]

So then business casual offices are mostly filled with the same bland, flat front, slim-fitting chinos, gingham shirts, and Allbirds sneakers. If one is insistent on fitting into business culture, it feels like a pretty drab existence.

I think it's highly regional, but I've never worked in an office that allowed sneakers as part of "business casual". Every office I've been in was basically OCBDs, odd trousers (but generally not chinos) and loafers/derbies/oxfords.

 

[Despos]

Back when I was in grad school, I was sitting in a seminar one day when a complicated math question came up. Because of how I look -- an Asian man in a sport coat -- everyone turned to me for the answer, including the professor. I don't know any math, so I just kind of shrugged my shoulders and gave one of those "I dunno" faces.

For the rest of the semester, no one ever looked at me again for math answers.

I know that feeling

 

[dieworkwear]

I know that feeling

I should wear a sport coat with a t-shirt that says "I don't know any math and was actually wondering if you can look over my paper."

 

[imatlas]

The only time I can recall clothes-shaming someone in the workplace it was because a dude thought these were biz-cazj appropriate:

 

[Count de Monet]

I guess I'm lucky in that when I started out the uniform was well understood by co-workers and clients alike, i.e. lawyer = suit. Folks would make allowance for an inexpensive suit, but it had to be a suit. Actually, there was never a debate just as no one ever debates whether the sun might rise in the west someday. In fact, it was probably in the fine print when exiting law school: "if you want your diploma, pay your unpaid parking tickets and sign this pledge to wear a suit to work everyday, assuming you can get a job." In a lot of ways it took the pressure off. Even clients who didn't own a suit (but could buy and sell you 100 times over) would expect you to meet them in a suit. Actually, I doubt they gave it any thought, just as I give no thought to the sun rising tomorrow. It was simply understood. It was the natural order of things. It simply was. And that made it easy.

Fast forward to the present with casualization + COVID and people having clients meeting or hearings via Zoom wearing shorts or no pants at all for all I know. Yet, when the new guy this year showed up, his first several weeks he was in jacket and tie. He erred on the side of traditional dress while he ascertained the lay of the land in the office, then eased up some, especially after he did well on a couple of projects. I think even in an office environment several rungs down on the formality ladder, that basic methodology would still work.

All that said, I'd be totally lost if I were transported into some job where showing up in my Quadrophenia t-shirt and G-1 jacket would make me seen as overdressed.

 

[comrade]

"I think it's highly regional, but I've never worked in an office that allowed sneakers as part of "business casual"

Nothing casual when you are "TheWorld's Foremost Authority"

thority"

 

[Nobilis Animus]

I guess I'm lucky in that when I started out the uniform was well understood by co-workers and clients alike, i.e. lawyer = suit. Folks would make allowance for an inexpensive suit, but it had to be a suit. Actually, there was never a debate just as no one ever debates whether the sun might rise in the west someday. In fact, it was probably in the fine print when exiting law school: "if you want your diploma, pay your unpaid parking tickets and sign this pledge to wear a suit to work everyday, assuming you can get a job." In a lot of ways it took the pressure off. Even clients who didn't own a suit (but could buy and sell you 100 times over) would expect you to meet them in a suit. Actually, I doubt they gave it any thought, just as I give no thought to the sun rising tomorrow. It was simply understood. It was the natural order of things. It simply was. And that made it easy.

Fast forward to the present with casualization + COVID and people having clients meeting or hearings via Zoom wearing shorts or no pants at all for all I know. Yet, when the new guy this year showed up, his first several weeks he was in jacket and tie. He erred on the side of traditional dress while he ascertained the lay of the land in the office, then eased up some, especially after he did well on a couple of projects. I think even in an office environment several rungs down on the formality ladder, that basic methodology would still work.

All that said, I'd be totally lost if I were transported into some job where showing up in my Quadrophenia t-shirt and G-1 jacket would make me seen as overdressed.

I think that given the choice, people would rather dress in the ways they are accustomed to dress. So if a suit was only a uniform before, now that it's optional we see a lot of people doing away with it.

This is to be expected, considering that the mode of dressing for most has shifted. When well-made clothes were more common, you wouldn't be 'dressing up in a suit' to go to work - unless you came from a family that didn't wear suits much. You were just going in to work in decent clothes. Nowadays you're less likely to be thrown out of the office is dressed more casually, but there are still many places where not dressing well enough will be a hindrance. This is mainly down to who populates your workplace, since different social groups are inclined to like their own 'types.'

Personally, I've never been in a situation yet where a business-casual dress code would not also accommodate a blazer or ties. The question posed by the OP was how to wear business-casual without wearing tailored jackets, which is harder. The safest option would be knitwear, but that gets boring every single day. Personally, I default to smart-casual on a regular basis, and then straight to a blazer +up for everything else (for work, I mean). My theory is that it's better to just stick to one's guns. Can't say for sure if it works, but I worry less.

 

[Despos]

"I think it's highly regional, but I've never worked in an office that allowed sneakers as part of "business casual"

Nothing casual when you are "TheWorld's Foremost Authority" View attachment 1560624 thority"

@comrade
Can’t believe I remember his name. To confirm, is this professor Irwin Corey?

 

[bicycleradical]

I’ve never heard of the neo nazi connection. I guess I just lead a sheltered life.

Perhaps people in Europe worry about such things. I don’t think they necessarily carry the same baggage here.

just wear a cardigan. At worst, you’ll be compared to Mr. Rogers and not mistaken for Michael Kühnen.

The guys who I went to elementary school with and all became nazis wore green MA-1 jacket and big leather boots.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

The guys who I went to elementary school with and all became nazis wore green MA-1 jacket and big leather boots.

I'm afraid to ask where you went to elementary school.

 

[bicycleradical]

I'm afraid to ask where you went to elementary school.

Perhaps I was unclear. Not all attendees of my elementary school became nazis. There were two or three that went in that direction however their choice of wardrobe was obvious.