Are Americans hostile to knowledge?

[RJman]

Originally Posted by HomerJ

It's lamenting dumbass U.S. Americans who think Pearl Harbor triggered the Vietnam War or that Europe is a country.

Fixed.

 

[matadorpoeta]

Originally Posted by HomerJ

In a rush to drop knowledge I think some of you have gone off topic. The book isn't about intellectuals who are intellectualizing about postwhateverism. It's lamenting dumbass Americans who think Pearl Harbor triggered the Vietnam War or that Europe is a country.

paraphrasing from '40 year-old virgin': "a'ight, now you usin' a lotta big words i don' understan, so i mo' have to take dat as disrespeck."

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by Brian278

I could do 2 of those three (and I could take a stab at the first), but perhaps you've chosen poor examples. There's plenty of engineering, or music, or business students who would not do well on your test but would school you in other areas, and those areas are worthwhile as well.

There's often a distinction made between two types of learning being dispensed in schools, namely education and instruction; the first one being a compendium of various information, most of them related to social sciences, that any adult citizen should, at a minimum, have a working knowledge of and the other one being skills necessary to qualify as a worker operating in a specific trade (advanced physics and engineers). The lament one often hears is directed at the declining quality of education and how it affects the ability to engage the socio-political sphere in any meaningful way. The shift towards a purely practical (think market-driven) approach to education has been identified as the culprit by many strident groups but I don't see is as being as cut and dry as that.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by lee_44106

what's the point of all that book learning when people are losing jobs everywhere?

Who needs book learning if do have a job? You already gots the money.

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

There's often a distinction made between two types of learning being dispensed in schools, namely education and instruction; the first one being a compendium of various information, most of them related to social sciences, that any adult citizen should, at a minimum, have a working knowledge of and the other one being skills necessary to qualify as a worker operating in a specific trade (advanced physics and engineers). The lament one often hears is directed at the declining quality of education and how it affects the ability to engage the socio-political sphere in any meaningful way. The shift towards a purely practical (think market-driven) approach to education has been identified as the culprit by many strident groups but I don't see is as being as cut and dry as that.

Yeah. The declining interest in politics in general most tangibly demonstrated by the declining voter turnout, especially among younger demographics, is obviously part and parcel to the decline in emphasis on the former in your dichotomy. Though I'd be hesitant to identify a chicken or an egg off the top of my head. Perhaps more clearly symptomatic is the tangential argument of "College isn't for everyone!", which perhaps it's not, but not for the reason the the proponents of that argument espouse.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Who needs book learning if do have a job? You already gots the money.

First you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

Jon.

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by edmorel

I think (therefore I am) that it is two things. We pride ourselves on being a nation of "doer's", not thinkers, in the classical sense. The old "those who can, do and those who can't, teach". You are supposed to work 25 hours a day and try and make as much money as possible. Second thing is the information age. We have more information available to us then anyone can possibly even begin to use. Think of the most arcane subject and you can find all the info you need on wiki or similar. So do you sit around all day and contemplate the meaning of life or do you get venture capital and figure out a new search engine/medical breakthrough/ipod etc etc.

Quite frankly, while needed, intellectualism is a bit overrated. The two things that have mattered in the world from day one have been money and guns (power).

Those cavemen sure loved their guns and dead prez...

 

[Piobaire]

^ Damn, I was about to say something about primitive men with guns hating book learning.

Being smart and knowledgable is often seen as effete and viewed in a suspicious manner. For the popular culture view on it, very few movies are made about people that are intelligent and knowledgable, even fewer about people like this that portrays them in a positive light. Think of Revenge of the Nerds, where they were all, well, nerds, or A Beautiful Mind, where John Nash might be a genius, but he also has some serious mental problems. Compare that to the wide variety of sports oriented movies every year that glorify the physical gifts.

I do not think this is limited to the US. I think it is evolutionary that people appreciate man's physical nature first and his mental acheivements second. In rare circumstances though, a society developed that appreciated the yin and the yang of mind/body, like the classical Greeks or the Renaissance period (the Renaissance man).

 

[Huntsman]

Americans love knowledge but eschew understanding.

~ Huntsman

 

[NorCal]

Not sure and I don't what to find out.

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Americans love knowledge but eschew understanding.

~ Huntsman

I think that it is more accurate to say that Americans edify information at the expense of knowledge and discernment. I come across a terrifying number of students whose heads are filled with facts (or whatever numbers pass as facts on the interwebz) but lack the ability to think, independently or otherwise.

When I was an undergraduate, a professor lambasted the class for not possessing adequate skepticism (about how a thermocouple worked, we were engineering students), and imploring us to really dig into things rather than being content to turn dials and knobs. I'm afraid that advice is not given nearly enough, and that many students lack the intellectual apparatus to follow it in any case.

 

[Dedalus]

Originally Posted by Dewey

Americans are not hostile to knowledge. They are practical, utilitarian about knowledge. If it is useful knowledge, they love it.

On the other hand, Americans are hostile to falsification. It's considered intolerant, aristocratic, oppressive, and un-American to tell other Americans that they cherish bad knowledge.

**** Karl Popper.

 

[Quirk]

Don't kids have a natural curiosity and skepticism? Maybe we should ask how their academic and social environments stifle it (or at least fail to nurture it).

 

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by Dedalus

**** Karl Popper.

Yeah, if he sets foot in this country he better bring a bunch of cute penguins.

 

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by LA Guy

I think that it is more accurate to say that Americans edify information at the expense of knowledge and discernment. I come across a terrifying number of students whose heads are filled with facts (or whatever numbers pass as facts on the interwebz) but lack the ability to think, independently or otherwise.

When I was an undergraduate, a professor lambasted the class for not possessing adequate skepticism (about how a thermocouple worked, we were engineering students), and imploring us to really dig into things rather than being content to turn dials and knobs. I'm afraid that advice is not given nearly enough, and that many students lack the intellectual apparatus to follow it in any case.

I absolutely agree. Is it just laziness? It seems like it from what I saw in college. Laziness and a true lack of any sense of wonder.