Archibald London: true craftsmanship, no middlemen, Official Vendor Thread

[ArchibaldRoh]

Probably that you're looking at seamless heel vs. that vertical patch of leather. IMO that patch is the worst, visually, kind of finishing seen on shoes. Seamless is best, followed by something as in below pair. I only mention visual aspect - no idea what's the difference construction-wise between vertical patch vs. seam as below.

View attachment 1441338

Ah so the design of the pair?

So if we just do a seamless heel that will make people happier?

Forgive me but that is a design choice no? If someone wants to say our shoes are ugly well fair game to them... Hopefully we release something soon that appeals.

My focus is on the quality promise and comparison being made.

 

[Xune]

Ah so the design of the pair?

That depends. One person might like seamless more, other might not.
However, I assume - and might be wrong here - that executing perfect seamless heel is harder/technically complicated than finishing with that patch of leather. Now, if that is true, it to a degree contradicts your statements about substandard pairs - if they're substandard, why do they feature more sophisticated solutions? At least in some regards, as you can argue yours are handwelted vs. GYW. Not to mention rest of things - density of stitching, finishing on sole, edges and all the fine details.
I would assume that if you're aiming to - eventually and in time - create the best pair of non-bespoke shoes available on the market, you'll be offering the best solutions executed to the greatest detail not only in construction (handwelted), but also in those fine details .

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to state shoes offered by you are bad. I'm also not interested in HW wholecut, but my lack of interest is caused by lack of need (or want) for more wholecuts, not by your offer.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

That depends. One person might like seamless more, other might not.
However, I assume - and might be wrong here - that executing perfect seamless heel is harder/technically complicated than finishing with that patch of leather. Now, if that is true, it to a degree contradicts your statements about substandard pairs - if they're substandard, why do they feature more sophisticated solutions? At least in some regards, as you can argue yours are handwelted vs. GYW. Not to mention rest of things - density of stitching, finishing on sole, edges and all the fine details.
I would assume that if you're aiming to - eventually and in time - create the best pair of non-bespoke shoes available on the market, you'll be offering the best solutions executed to the greatest detail not only in construction (handwelted), but also in those fine details .

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to state shoes offered by you are bad. I'm also not interested in HW wholecut, but my lack of interest is caused by lack of need (or want) for more wholecuts, not by your offer.

Not at all, this is invaluable. I think it is the first time I actually understand how these things are processed. All this time i saw it as mere design choice as it doesn't cost us more to do it this way over another so it is great to append my thinking as such.

It also explains why the wholecut chelsea and now oxford are proving so popular as they exhibit thesr harder techniques.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

I also wonder if there is anyone on the forum who understands what we are trying to do and our vision for this collection who might come on board in an official capacity to help us get there faster? Someone who understands these things already and is quicker to absorb the points made by all of you (so someone more knowledgable than us). It would flatten the learning curve, probably be more pleasant and engaging for all of you and it would let this person be a very real and important part (and stakeholder) of something I think is ambitious and quite special.

 

[Wild Strawberry Rabbit]

What @Xune said. Additionally I dont get it. In one post you claim that you compared your shoes with high end shoes and you are trouncing them. In the next post you state that you have no idea about shoes so you can’t compare them. You call JL substandard and JL Prestige line is a garbage according to your shoemakers (item not made in Italy is a garbage according to Italian... what a surprise! And trustworthy opinion for sure!) ... I can’t imagine anyone having any idea about shoes calling JL substandard and garbage. They are overpriced and not the best on the market obviously, but they are very well made and well executed shoes. Much better than vast majority of cheaper brands (especially all GYW shoes under 500 EUR), so what is your justification on calling them substandard? Especially when you admitted that you don’t know much about shoes?

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

What @Xune said. Additionally I dont get it. In one post you claim that you compared your shoes with high end shoes and you are trouncing them. In the next post you state that you have no idea about shoes so you can’t compare them. You call JL substandard and JL Prestige line is a garbage according to your shoemakers (item not made in Italy is a garbage according to Italian... what a surprise! And trustworthy opinion for sure!) ... I can’t imagine anyone having any idea about shoes calling JL substandard and garbage. They are overpriced and not the best on the market obviously, but they are very well made and well executed shoes. Much better than vast majority of cheaper brands (especially all GYW shoes under 500 EUR), so what is your justification on calling them substandard? Especially when you admitted that you don’t know much about shoes?

Putting them on and wearing them.

The difference of a EG, GG, Berluti, Enzo Bonafe, Santoni and even Amadeo Testoni (the highest line) over John Lobb is ultra clear when you wear them. I believe having tried pretty mucj every shoe being sold on the Rake and Mr Porter in a close manner over the period of 14 days so i can return them made me pretty knowledgeable on how something is supposed to feel.

Like i said i had no idea a design choice (which i understand thanks to @Xune explaining it) made you all think it was lesser because as I said it doesnt cost us any more to do it in that way over the way we are doing it. Notice I genuinely saw nothing but a fatter heel?

Also, take it easy with the tone man. I am nothing but transparent and up front with my stance... there is no witch hunt to be had. No one is forcing you to try us out or purchase the product. Chill.

And no the city 2 is not the prestige line. He called the city 2 garbage and I wore it and tend to agree. I wear the Archibald Cap Toe now and i honestly say this with no bias for this one statement, if Churchs sell for 550 gbp abd John Lobb city 2 for 900 gbp, i would happily pay 1200 gbp for a pair of Archis (even though that full price they are 378 or something) because having worn and experienced and destroyef all three (note i wear my shoes, not stare at them), archi's trounce them. That is why I put my money into this project.

Now different strokes for different folks.

 

[Wild Strawberry Rabbit]

So you worn the shoes or only tried them? Because if you returned them after 14 days I can’t imagine you wearing them tbh. And for me the difference on feet is not that ultra clear (and I also tried on a lot and also own some higher end shoes) so could you please explain to me what exactly made the difference to you? BTW if you really aim to compare your shoes with the best then you should order e.g Yohei Fukuda RTW.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

So you worn the shoes or only tried them? Because if you returned them after 14 days I can’t imagine you wearing them tbh. And for me the difference on feet is not that ultra clear (and I also tried on a lot and also own some higher end shoes) so could you please explain to me what exactly made the difference to you? BTW if you really aim to compare your shoes with the best then you should order e.g Yohei Fukuda RTW.

The feel, the entire experience as your foot goes in. A Berluti goodyear is something beautiful having owned churchs and jl at the time i tried on the berluti and thinking churchs and jl were greay i realised it was just not the same thing. They arent in the same league... Now i appreciate most shoes from Berluti arent their goodyear collection. But it was the same with a Santoni handwelted. Absolutely different, different league of feeling.

These are the shoes I have owned and finished:
Churches custom grade cap toe.
John Lobb City 2
Berluti goodyear
Archibald cap toe last 001
Archibald brogue last 001
Dunhill wholecut chelsea (just got rid of them and ordered an Archibald one which again i tried and felt much nicer probably because of the welting)

The rest was 14 days but again it was 39k worth of shoes or something. We were doing market research.

And I want to buy a Vass and Enzo Bonafe (which i have tried but not owned) as now I cannot do anything but handwelted. So for me once its handwelted it is a different echolon altogether.

Yes i hear Yohei Fukada are great. Perhaps if the HW01 are successful and get the adulation I hope, I will purchase a pair of Yohei Fukada and see whats next for us.

 

[beargonefishing]

Probably that you're looking at seamless heel vs. that vertical patch of leather. IMO that patch is the worst, visually, kind of finishing seen on shoes. Seamless is best, followed by something as in below pair. I only mention visual aspect - no idea what's the difference construction-wise between vertical patch vs. seam as below.

View attachment 1441338

I could be wrong, but the comparison pictures have the same type of heal, stacked leather, but highlight the finishing of the heal stack. Getting it to look seamless takes more time.

 

[clee1982]

well, below is ACME from China, they’re $1.2k? Basically RTW made to bespoke standard (so everything is bespoke other than the last is not design exclusively for your feet, though they do have MTM and bespoke service for more as well)

https://m.bilibili.com/video/BV115411h7GE?fbclid=IwAR0tE_BGeTcK7-8rT5vA1DaM2apCT_Q5cRXm1TivDuzQ6MgWF4ZjtjVtiSsPz8n7vkXjk14Unt7Vpw

perhaps you guys can make a video like this too?

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

I could be wrong, but the comparison pictures have the same type of heal, stacked leather, but highlight the finishing of the heal stack. Getting it to look seamless takes more time.

Thanks going in my notes for when we speak witb Adriano.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

I also wonder if there is anyone on the forum who understands what we are trying to do and our vision for this collection who might come on board in an official capacity to help us get there faster? Someone who understands these things already and is quicker to absorb the points made by all of you (so someone more knowledgable than us). It would flatten the learning curve, probably be more pleasant and engaging for all of you and it would let this person be a very real and important part (and stakeholder) of something I think is ambitious and quite special.

Very serious about this btw. If anyone is interested please DM me.

 

[ArchibaldRoh]

Posting this here as well as ultra serious about having someone join.

I also wonder if there is anyone on the forum who understands what we are trying to do and our vision for this collection who might come on board in an official capacity to help us get there faster? Someone who understands these things already and is quicker to absorb the points made by all of you (so someone more knowledgable than us). It would flatten the learning curve, probably be more pleasant and engaging for all of you and it would let this person be a very real and important part (and stakeholder) of something I think is ambitious and quite special.

 

[Wild Strawberry Rabbit]

I could be wrong, but the comparison pictures have the same type of heal, stacked leather, but highlight the finishing of the heal stack. Getting it to look seamless takes more time.

I meant the upper, not the stacked leather below. Upper on Archibald shoes has a big patch there (and stitches on both sides of the patch) JL Prestige makes much nicer seamless heels. Some other makers e.g. Vass also make seamless heel on their oxfords (picture below). This just looks much nicer and more refined than a big vertical patch of leather on the heel.

Obviously on wholecuts, unless they are seamless you need to have a seam somewhere. To achieve seamless heel look you can make the seam on the inside part, where it is much less visible than on the heel:

It looks much more high end than what Archibald has:

BTW: the seam on Archibald wholecuts looks way much better (and such solution is also quite commonly used by other brands, including JL Prestige Marldon) than patch on Archibald oxfords.

 

[clee1982]

Or just make a true seamless whole cut