Archibald London Hand Welted Shoes - preorder issues, discussion,and resolution.

[clee1982]

DTC do have some room to play though? Especially for the simple basic category. Like someone just want the "best basic" chino (basic as in fit and color being main stream appropriate, don't think to think if it's too slim, too baggy etc.), the "best basic" flannel shirt, "best basic" white CP like sneaker, and all for cheaper. I guess that's what J Crew/RL used to be, but somehow someone decide to do exactly that and cut further...

I can see a lot average guys don't bother to shop or have as much romantic association with clothe, they just want what looks "normal and good right now".

 

[dieworkwear]

DTC do have some room to play though? Especially for the simple basic category. Like someone just want the "best basic" chino (basic as in fit and color being main stream appropriate, don't think to think if it's too slim, too baggy etc.), the "best basic" flannel shirt, "best basic" white CP like sneaker, and all for cheaper. I guess that's what J Crew/RL used to be, but somehow someone decide to do exactly that and cut further...

Honestly sounds so depressing. (I'm sorry! Don't mean to be a downer, it's just ... very depressing).

"The Best Chino -- slim but not skinny, and definitely not baggy, for the Modern Man. We've designed it to bring you from the boardroom to the bar, sold directly to you, cutting out the middleman. It comes in our Subscription Club Box with our Best Navy Crewneck, Best Gingham Shirt, and Best White Sneaker, each guaranteed to be as basic as possible in fit and color, allowing you to look as mainstream as possible so you don't suffer any anxiety about looking even just a tiny bit out of place."

 

[JFWR]

Honestly sounds so depressing. (I'm sorry! Don't mean to be a downer, it's just ... very depressing).

"The Best Chino -- slim but not skinny, and definitely not baggy, for the Modern Man. We've designed it to bring you from the boardroom to the bar, sold directly to you, cutting out the middleman. It comes in our Subscription Club Box with our Best Navy Crewneck, Best Gingham Shirt, and Best White Sneaker, each guaranteed to be as basic as possible in fit and color, allowing you to look as mainstream as possible so you don't suffer any anxiety about looking even just a tiny bit out of place."

In what sense does this differ from your style advice, sans the marketing bits?

Perhaps I've misinterpreted your message, but you generally suggest pretty safe fashion advice for men. Good quality advice, mind you, but safe.

 

[dieworkwear]

In what sense does this differ from your style advice, sans the marketing bits?

Perhaps I've misinterpreted your message, but you generally suggest pretty safe fashion advice for men. Good quality advice, mind you, but safe.

I try to cover a spectrum of things, and try to encourage people to build a platform to explore their taste. I write about all sorts of things, including offbeat workwear, Americana, contemporary clothing. I mostly try to encourage people to find the visual language in dress, enjoy the culture of dress, and dress from emotion -- find the joy in clothes.

Don't think I've ever recommended people to find The Best Chino and The Best Sneaker. I think these "best" concepts are reductive and kind of soulless, and this business casual uniform is kind of ugly.

 

[JFWR]

I try to cover a spectrum of things, and try to encourage people to build a platform to explore their taste. I write about all sorts of things, including offbeat workwear, Americana, contemporary clothing. I mostly try to encourage people to find the visual language in dress, enjoy the culture of dress, and dress from emotion -- find the joy in clothes.

Don't think I've ever recommended people to find The Best Chino and The Best Sneaker. I think these "best" concepts are reductive and kind of soulless, and this business casual uniform is kind of ugly.

Fair points.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Depressing indeed but how many guys shop like that? I’m lucky if occasionally a friend reaches out to ask about a purchase they’re contemplating and I get to introduce them to something I enjoy but even then it’s usually “I need some new sneakers so I don’t look like I’m out for a run” and involves me sending them a minimalist white sneaker or GAT and being told they won’t spend 400-600 on sneakers and resorting to one of the DTC brands as an alternative because the answer that they should look for some vintage German army surplus and wait for it to pop up isn’t usually practical when it’s “well I need the shoe next week for a trip to Miami.” I had a friend ask about some dress shoes for work and asked if “oxfords not brogues” was a real thing from the movie Kingsman because they were debating Cole Haan or Amazon’s line and didn’t want to buy the wrong thing. I got excited to explain and wrote up a long text back and took a bunch of pictures of different things to show him and recommended some brands that have nice options that would last and look nice. He instead ended up buying the Amazon pair. I think we’d likely all agree that most people would be better served by having a small boutique that was curated and could help guide them. I know I absolutely would have benefited from that (and probably still would if I’m honest with myself.) Instead I found my way to department stores because Saks, Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom were the options near me when I got started and bought from salesmen who knew less than the average guy on this forum and had questionable taste and weren’t much of a help. Then I found the forums like AAAC and SF and lurked for years reading people’s guidance without ever posting myself and found some of those boutiques and better things. How many guys stumble into SuitSupply and have them sell them a suit that’s a size too small and too short with pants too cropped and walk out thinking they look amazing? I think if we are honest with ourselves most guys out there buy clothes because they have to. They aren’t curious about it. They’d prefer it “looks good” and to not have to think about it. I’m not sure how you fix it. Interestingly, one of the things @ArchibaldRoh mentioned could be intriguing in the sort of virtual bazaar he mentioned where they provide the infrastructure for smaller artisans to sell their own product directly without having to invest in e-commerce. //EDIT// I enjoy buying from small makers around the world but man - so many of their websites are just garbage and hard to navigate. This is the intriguing part of it, not cutting out a retailer or something // It wouldn’t solve the curation issue or most guys not knowing where to start or how things should work together but it would at least expose them to interesting makers selling, hopefully, high quality wares. All that being said I don’t know how anyone could argue there isn’t a ton of value provided by something like The Armoury, The Rake or NMWA being willing to invest in the education of their customers. Likewise there is clearly a value add from someone like @Leaves or @j ingevaldsson being able to help guys find some shoes because they know what works and how they’re likely to fit you and keep you from buying those purple shark skin double monks when you’re really looking for a brown loafer. When we talk about stores and people like that, it’s pretty clear we aren’t talking about the college kid working at Nordstrom telling you about Santoni because they watched a brand video during training but someone who knows their products but also their industry, how their products are meant to fit, how they are meant to be worn and how to help you as the consumer make our decisions.

 

[clee1982]

Honestly sounds so depressing. (I'm sorry! Don't mean to be a downer, it's just ... very depressing).

"The Best Chino -- slim but not skinny, and definitely not baggy, for the Modern Man. We've designed it to bring you from the boardroom to the bar, sold directly to you, cutting out the middleman. It comes in our Subscription Club Box with our Best Navy Crewneck, Best Gingham Shirt, and Best White Sneaker, each guaranteed to be as basic as possible in fit and color, allowing you to look as mainstream as possible so you don't suffer any anxiety about looking even just a tiny bit out of place."

yea, but that's kind what the mass want ?‍♂️ ? there are mid town bro, silicon bro uniform out there for a reason...

 

[dieworkwear]

yea, but that's kind what the mass want ?‍♂️ ? there are mid town bro, silicon bro uniform out there for a reason...

I mean, clearly, there are people who prefer to shop like that. I'm not saying there aren't. I'm saying that as someone who likes clothes, I find the process, logic, and uniform kind of depressing.

Whether it serves the market seems like a separate, almost cold and clinical question to whether it appeals to people who love clothes.

Depressing indeed but how many guys shop like that? I’m lucky if occasionally a friend reaches out to ask about a purchase they’re contemplating and I get to introduce them to something I enjoy but even then it’s usually “I need some new sneakers so I don’t look like I’m out for a run” and involves me sending them a minimalist white sneaker or GAT and being told they won’t spend 400-600 on sneakers and resorting to one of the DTC brands as an alternative because the answer that they should look for some vintage German army surplus and wait for it to pop up isn’t usually practical when it’s “well I need the shoe next week for a trip to Miami.” I had a friend ask about some dress shoes for work and asked if “oxfords not brogues” was a real thing from the movie Kingsman because they were debating Cole Haan or Amazon’s line and didn’t want to buy the wrong thing. I got excited to explain and wrote up a long text back and took a bunch of pictures of different things to show him and recommended some brands that have nice options that would last and look nice. He instead ended up buying the Amazon pair. I think we’d likely all agree that most people would be better served by having a small boutique that was curated and could help guide them. I know I absolutely would have benefited from that (and probably still would if I’m honest with myself.) Instead I found my way to department stores because Saks, Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom were the options near me when I got started and bought from salesmen who knew less than the average guy on this forum and had questionable taste and weren’t much of a help. Then I found the forums like AAAC and SF and lurked for years reading people’s guidance without ever posting myself and found some of those boutiques and better things. How many guys stumble into SuitSupply and have them sell them a suit that’s a size too small and too short with pants too cropped and walk out thinking they look amazing? I think if we are honest with ourselves most guys out there buy clothes because they have to. They aren’t curious about it. They’d prefer it “looks good” and to not have to think about it. I’m not sure how you fix it. Interestingly, one of the things @ArchibaldRoh mentioned could be intriguing in the sort of virtual bazaar he mentioned where they provide the infrastructure for smaller artisans to sell their own product directly without having to invest in e-commerce. //EDIT// I enjoy buying from small makers around the world but man - so many of their websites are just garbage and hard to navigate. This is the intriguing part of it, not cutting out a retailer or something // It wouldn’t solve the curation issue or most guys not knowing where to start or how things should work together but it would at least expose them to interesting makers selling, hopefully, high quality wares. All that being said I don’t know how anyone could argue there isn’t a ton of value provided by something like The Armoury, The Rake or NMWA being willing to invest in the education of their customers. Likewise there is clearly a value add from someone like @Leaves or @j ingevaldsson being able to help guys find some shoes because they know what works and how they’re likely to fit you and keep you from buying those purple shark skin double monks when you’re really looking for a brown loafer. When we talk about stores and people like that, it’s pretty clear we aren’t talking about the college kid working at Nordstrom telling you about Santoni because they watched a brand video during training but someone who knows their products but also their industry, how their products are meant to fit, how they are meant to be worn and how to help you as the consumer make our decisions.

Me trying to read a post without a line break

 

[clee1982]

speaking of platform, sounds like a proper tech start up, though the tech side need to have a reality touch on the particular product (hard to be one size fits all approach), otherwise you end up with something worse than eBay Buy It Now...

 

[clee1982]

well, he is probably typing on smart phone... completely get your point, but I'm about as cheap as the next guy too, and there are product category where I definitely just want a "cheaper alternative".

For example a CP like sneaker I would definitely not pay CP price... because that happens to be a category I care a lot less, now I'm sure the average guy would think Vekla is also kind crazy pricy... I mean you probably could get rando minimalist white sneaker for like $50? So I suppose it's the equivalent of "when I make a high way stop I don't mind eating McD pr DD..."

 

[JohnMRobie]

speaking of platform, sounds like a proper tech start up, though the tech side need to have a reality touch on the particular product (hard to be one size fits all approach), otherwise you end up with something worse than eBay Buy It Now...

I mean just thinking off the top of my head how many brands have websites that look like they were built on geocities and the ordering process is atrocious? If it’s similar to say a Shopify platform and democratizes their platform that is a win. Now to clarify, I’m not thinking of someone who would otherwise show up in NMWA or The Armoury or Cavour but more like a Winson-type vendor where it’s still limited production but you don’t have to order on an excel spreadsheet sent back to a yahoo email address.

 

[clee1982]

you would think Shopify already made it massively easier, but a lot guys still doesn't have a website. I suppose that's where IG can step up further, they can definitely make it more seamless one stop shop if they want (and that's one place where you might see a western "super app" if they went full integration).

 

[dieworkwear]

speaking of platform, sounds like a proper tech start up, though the tech side need to have a reality touch on the particular product (hard to be one size fits all approach), otherwise you end up with something worse than eBay Buy It Now...

well, he is probably typing on smart phone... completely get your point, but I'm about as cheap as the next guy too, and there are product category where I definitely just want a "cheaper alternative".

For example a CP like sneaker I would definitely not pay CP price... because that happens to be a category I care a lot less, now I'm sure the average guy would think Vekla is also kind crazy pricy... I mean you probably could get rando minimalist white sneaker for like $50? So I suppose it's the equivalent of "when I make a high way stop I don't mind eating McD pr DD..."

Clee, I love you, but for the love of all that is holy and mighty and good with the world, please learn how to use the multi-quote function and edit posts so that your posts are in one post. You literally just "liked" a post at the SWD side of the board where someone just brought this up!!

 

[deliku]

I think if we are honest with ourselves most guys out there buy clothes because they have to.

This is pretty much on the nose. I do think men used to dress better in the past, but it was most likely because they were forced to by stricter societal norms, etc. Men used to buy better-made clothes and shoes too, but again it’s probably because people hadn’t figured out how to produce things cheaper and easier yet so goods were, on average, better constructed than what we have today.

 

[Mercurio]

based on your description I would think you're talking about the Armoury, NMWA, Self Edge, and Bergdorf Goodman of the old days, or RRL anywhere, RL Mansion or the big cities.

I'm not sure the "generic" J. Crew, RL or BB in many cities fits those kind description.

Not only what you mention: most of the comments seem to forget that not everybody lives in the USA and that this forum has a worldwide audience, where any of those stores are available and consumption patterns are somehow different.