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Archibald London Hand Welted Shoes - Not Hand Welted?

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j ingevaldsson

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Considering your proximity to this man and your love for dressy SpTDs, I am nominating you.
Your mission Jesper should you choose to accept it. Infiltrate Wegan's domain. Become friendly with him. As always, exercise extreme caution because there will be other styles that may sway or persuade you. Don't let it happen. We need to see a completed Wegan SpTD at all costs. The good folks of SF support you. Godspeed. 👍🏻
Hehe I already have another style on order, but he is building up his selection of samples now slowly but steadily so I will forward your wish and perhaps that can become one such 😊

The split seam (?) on the left shoe doesn’t line up with the length of the right shoe.

I guess that’s within tolerance of fully handmade shoes?
It's mainly that the photo isn't taken straight from above, if you look closer you'll see that it's tilted slightly.

Templeman must be taking all the split toe derby business :censored:
Yeah, he reigns the "folks-who-want-a-split-toe-derby-from-a-new-small-British-made-independent-bespoke-maker" customer group ATM 😊
 
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Verrihappy

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After the latest exposé of fraudulent representation, has our transparent, disruptive, game changing, ethical retailer of sustainable luxuries, AOL, gone AWOL?

Would they honour requests for refunds from aggrieved buyers of Goodyear welted sneakers?

Apologise to other traditional, broken luxury retailers for making indecent $6 profits?

Request their very own master craftsmen and artisans to actually craft by hand their offering?
 
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ArchibaldRoh

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After the latest exposé of fraudulent representation, has our disruptive, game changing, ethical retailer of sustainable luxuries, AOL, gone AWOL?

Would they honour requests for refunds from aggrieved buyers of Goodyear welted sneakers?

Apologise to other traditional, broken luxury retailers for making indecent $6 profits?

Request their very own master craftsmen and artisans to actually craft by hand their offering?
Japan Blue is the maker.. we support makers and brand-makers who offer direct sales. In fact, we are building a marketplace where makers can sell direct as another section of Archibald to champion these smaller independent brand-makers. Makers arent luxury retailers as we define them - Harrods is, Selfridges is, Nordstrom are and a luxury brand that buys from Japan Blue and sells it for $700 a pair for jeans is.
Then you have brands who have entire distribution channels that rely on re-sellers using the traditional retail model. So when MrPorter buy something, they have to make a 3.2 mark-up (2.7 - 3.5) on the item. At the same time the poor brand that sells there does so as it provides the exposure they need to build the business and they hope as it builds majority of the sales will be made directly through their own channels - where they will receive the additional 3.2 mark-ups for themselves.
So assuming the brand is taking a 2.5x mark-up from what they are purchasing it for and then they have to give the retailer they sell to a 3.2x mark-up - you end up in a situation where an item made for x is sold for 8x.
The retailer needs that margin because of the cost of re-selling an item and also because in today's world majority of the sales come during sale time. So they aren't bad people, it's just the system.

The brand realizes how price-sensitive customers really are and sets up the outlet channel, often commissioning lesser items.

Now that is in a mid-tier product. High luxury items that are made by bigger brands mean more of an inventory risk and therefore a higher mark-up. On top of that, we live in a world where quality is judged by price. So before we knew anything about the many brands we have been exposed to on Styleforum, I thought the best shoes were John Lobb and Berluti. The idea of something as beautiful and pure as Yohei Fukuda as a non-bespoke shoe was foreign. That is reserved for a niche community and it shouldn't and I have never had the opportunity to get near one.

Normal direct-to-consumer applying the term to tech brands works for a specific market and that is entry-level product sold for a slightly better price. By working with makers and artisans like the ones we work with (let's ignore Adriano and his duplicitous actions) we offer a slightly different approach where its a higher luxury item.
The other side of what we do and the flywheel we have tried to build is that there is an insistence on integrating feedback and improvement of the product. So with every release, we take the feedback received and improve the next run. This is exactly what happened with the SF-01, we made a sneaker with the community, delivered it, got feedback on design flaws, material changes, had someone cut it up on a public forum, he allowed everyone to suggest further changes like using a leather floorboard and not fibreboard etc and we released the v2 which was a success. Again, we are making improvements to the v2 for the next delivered batch and so on...
This approach was what we learned from the Japanese artisans with whom we began this journey with as Archibald Optics. Constant feedback - improvement loop and an understanding there is always an improvement to be made. And if the cost of the item increases with improvement, no problem. The underlying mission is providing a value proposition on a mass scale, that is cross-category (not fashion alone) and subsequently, a platform where brands that do the same can offer their items and makers can also directly do so.

What we found in this community is a wonderful group of product obsessives who also know value. For the group that participates with us, it allows us to work together to develop (deliver and improve) a product and connect it with a value proposition. At the end of the day, the item also has to have commercial appeal and balance. So yes we can make items that are made with every OTT technique required to make them the very, very best, but that will lose commercial appeal unless people can acquire them.

Brands are also not retailers as per our definition, they are brands. Apple is a brand. They do not own their entire supply chain, yet when you buy from Apple you are buying directly a product commissioned by Apple. That product with the Apple logo on it would not exist if Apple did not commission it.

I think it is important to realize that we do not stand against the independent makers you all love and support. We support them and we think they need more spotlight on them. They sell direct or oftentimes through smaller boutiques that do not apply such high multiples on the product. We want to help get their stories out there even if they did as just like with some of the more designed items from designer luxury labels that sell with high multiples - sometimes, its simply art. This is also why, in our offering, we always focus on basics.

Regarding the wallet - The product says handmade, not hand-stitched. Also not marketed as hand-stitched, it's marketed as handmade as is correct terminology used for the piece given the many hand-processes involved. And it is made by an artisan and yes she might not finger-stitch the wallet but if she did it would perhaps cost us more and have to be sold for more.

The eyewear is made using machines to help in some processes, like a polisher for example. It spins and the craftsman presses against the polisher to buff them or whatever. He polishes and shines a little without it as well. They are still handmade.

You don't like us and that is ok. Nothing I say, no matter what logic I apply will convince you. But I hope somewhere within you (not the troll-you) but the person, you see what I am saying not to be on our side as such but rather just so you understand.
One maker pulled a fast one, it's rocked us and not because of the matter on a public forum (we would have announced it to everyone regardless) but more so because it has changed the amount of trust we can provide artisans in certain situations and we are remedying the situation both in internal processes as well as with people affected.

Finally, I started this business at the age of 24. I am 32 now and it has never gone according to plan, that is simply how things pan out. It took years for us to get any movement as the market was dominated by the entry-level direct-to-consumer brands such as Warby Parker etc. Our model looks great on paper because it can theoretically convert up people who want a nicer product for a little bit more and convert down people who are exposed to high-quality offerings. The direct-to-consumer approach typically offers products made and priced In reality, because the items made are often so poor the mark-ups they are applying to their product are no different to what traditional retailers (Harrods etc) are providing. This is not true for all as there are brands that also exist in that gap. Again they have high advertising costs to contend with and are backed by venture capitalists who want low acquisition costs and tremendous growth. What happens with these brands is they start to plateau and often times it's pumped heavily so investors can get a quick exit within 10 years and the customers have on average, say 2 purchase cycles (mostly just one) before they "grow up" as such.

But when we launched on this day in 2014, despite the press attention the fact that we were ultimately mid-market priced for a high luxury product (Japanese eyewear) it meant the people who could afford it or owned Japanese handmade eyewear didn't believe the proposition (they weren't like you guys, I mean the masses) and the people who couldn't didn't understand or experience quality. So acquisition cost is higher but because the product was an ultimately good product and had a true value, the lifetime value of the customer is also significantly higher due to re-order. Over the years, we started to see a shift, and now more and more people are gravitating toward a value-led purchase. You also see some of the newer d2c brands coming out with higher quality product offerings and the model we employ of D2c luxe if you will is starting to be increasingly vindicated.

And again, I know this might not do anything for you and you don't care, etc and perhaps even a bunch of people will jump at it and rally... that is ok.
 
Last edited:

JustPullHarder

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Japan Blue is the maker.. we support makers and brand-makers who offer direct sales. In fact, we are building a marketplace where makers can sell direct as another section of Archibald to champion these smaller independent brand-makers. Makers arent luxury retailers as we define them - Harrods is, Selfridges is, Nordstrom are and a luxury brand that buys from Japan Blue and sells it for $700 a pair for jeans is.
Then you have brands who have entire distribution channels that rely on re-sellers using the traditional retail model. So when MrPorter buy something, they have to make a 3.2 mark-up (2.7 - 3.5) on the item. At the same time the poor brand that sells there does so as it provides the exposure they need to build the business and they hope as it builds majority of the sales will be made directly through their own channels - where they will receive the additional 3.2 mark-ups for themselves.
So assuming the brand is taking a 2.5x mark-up from what they are purchasing it for and then they have to give the retailer they sell to a 3.2x mark-up - you end up in a situation where an item made for x is sold for 8x.
The retailer needs that margin because of the cost of re-selling an item and also because in today's world majority of the sales come during sale time. So they aren't bad people, it's just the system.

The brand realizes how price-sensitive customers really are and sets up the outlet channel, often commissioning lesser items.

Now that is in a mid-tier product. High luxury items that are made by bigger brands mean more of an inventory risk and therefore a higher mark-up. On top of that, we live in a world where quality is judged by price. So before we knew anything about the many brands we have been exposed to on Styleforum, I thought the best shoes were John Lobb and Berluti. The idea of something as beautiful and pure as Yohei Fukuda as a non-bespoke shoe was foreign. That is reserved for a niche community and it shouldn't and I have never had the opportunity to get near one.

Normal direct-to-consumer applying the term to tech brands works for a specific market and that is entry-level product sold for a slightly better price. By working with makers and artisans like the ones we work with (let's ignore Adriano and his duplicitous actions) we offer a slightly different approach where its a higher luxury item.
The other side of what we do and the flywheel we have tried to build is that there is an insistence on integrating feedback and improvement of the product. So with every release, we take the feedback received and improve the next run. This is exactly what happened with the SF-01, we made a sneaker with the community, delivered it, got feedback on design flaws, material changes, had someone cut it up on a public forum, he allowed everyone to suggest further changes like using a leather floorboard and not fibreboard etc and we released the v2 which was a success. Again, we are making improvements to the v2 for the next delivered batch and so on...
This approach was what we learned from the Japanese artisans with whom we began this journey with as Archibald Optics. Constant feedback - improvement loop and an understanding there is always an improvement to be made. And if the cost of the item increases with improvement, no problem. The underlying mission is providing a value proposition on a mass scale, that is cross-category (not fashion alone) and subsequently, a platform where brands that do the same can offer their items and makers can also directly do so.

What we found in this community is a wonderful group of product obsessives who also know value. For the group that participates with us, it allows us to work together to develop (deliver and improve) a product and connect it with a value proposition. At the end of the day, the item also has to have commercial appeal and balance. So yes we can make items that are made with every OTT technique required to make them the very, very best, but that will lose commercial appeal unless people can acquire them.

Brands are also not retailers as per our definition, they are brands. Apple is a brand. They do not own their entire supply chain, yet when you buy from Apple you are buying directly a product commissioned by Apple. That product with the Apple logo on it would not exist if Apple did not commission it.

I think it is important to realize that we do not stand against the independent makers you all love and support. We support them and we think they need more spotlight on them. They sell direct or oftentimes through smaller boutiques that do not apply such high multiples on the product. We want to help get their stories out there even if they did as just like with some of the more designed items from designer luxury labels that sell with high multiples - sometimes, its simply art. This is also why, in our offering, we always focus on basics.

Regarding the wallet - The product says handmade, not hand-stitched. Also not marketed as hand-stitched, it's marketed as handmade as is correct terminology used for the piece given the many hand-processes involved. And it is made by an artisan and yes she might not finger-stitch the wallet but if she did it would perhaps cost us more and have to be sold for more.

The eyewear is made using machines to help in some processes, like a polisher for example. It spins and the craftsman presses against the polisher to buff them or whatever. He polishes and shines a little without it as well. They are still handmade.

You don't like us and that is ok. Nothing I say, no matter what logic I apply will convince you. But I hope somewhere within you (not the troll-you) but the person, you see what I am saying not to be on our side as such but rather just so you understand.
One maker pulled a fast one, it's rocked us and not because of the matter on a public forum (we would have announced it to everyone regardless) but more so because it has changed the amount of trust we can provide artisans in certain situations and we are remedying the situation both in internal processes as well as with people affected.

Finally, I started this business at the age of 24. I am 32 now and it has never gone according to plan, that is simply how things pan out. It took years for us to get any movement as the market was dominated by the entry-level direct-to-consumer brands such as Warby Parker etc. Our model looks great on paper because it can theoretically convert up people who want a nicer product for a little bit more and convert down people who are exposed to high-quality offerings. The direct-to-consumer approach typically offers products made and priced In reality, because the items made are often so poor the mark-ups they are applying to their product are no different to what traditional retailers (Harrods etc) are providing. This is not true for all as there are brands that also exist in that gap. Again they have high advertising costs to contend with and are backed by venture capitalists who want low acquisition costs and tremendous growth. What happens with these brands is they start to plateau and often times it's pumped heavily so investors can get a quick exit within 10 years and the customers have on average, say 2 purchase cycles (mostly just one) before they "grow up" as such.

But when we launched on this day in 2014, despite the press attention the fact that we were ultimately mid-market priced for a high luxury product (Japanese eyewear) it meant the people who could afford it or owned Japanese handmade eyewear didn't believe the proposition (they weren't like you guys, I mean the masses) and the people who couldn't didn't understand or experience quality. So acquisition cost is higher but because the product was an ultimately good product and had a true value, the lifetime value of the customer is also significantly higher due to re-order. Over the years, we started to see a shift, and now more and more people are gravitating toward a value-led purchase. You also see some of the newer d2c brands coming out with higher quality product offerings and the model we employ of D2c luxe if you will is starting to be increasingly vindicated.

And again, I know this might not do anything for you and you don't care, etc and perhaps even a bunch of people will jump at it and rally... that is ok.
You never did reply why you sell your house label 13oz Japan Blue jeans for $US 219 which is significantly more than Okayama Denim ($US140 to 150) and Denimio ($US130 to 150)? Who are you disrupting in this case? Doesn't that just make you a retailer like commissioning some private label stuff from Crockett & Jones? I raised this before but maybe it got lost in the shuffle.

Even limited edition (i.e. special fabric) jeans under Japan Blue's various brands like Momotaro are comparable to your pricing but are more 'special'.
 

ArchibaldRoh

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You never did reply why you sell your house label 13oz Japan Blue jeans for $US 219 which is significantly more than Okayama Denim ($US140 to 150) and Denimio ($US130 to 150)? Who are you disrupting in this case? Doesn't that just make you a retailer like commissioning some private label stuff from Crockett & Jones? I raised this before but maybe it got lost in the shuffle.

Even limited edition (i.e. special fabric) jeans under Japan Blue's various brands like Momotaro are comparable to your pricing but are more 'special'.
Good question. I am not sure how say Okayama Denim does what they do, but I do know that our pricing follows a vey specific mark-up calculator as I explained. Perhaps as they specialize in the one category they are able to purchase differently or different options open (off stock etc). I can't comment on how they do it.

I do also want to clarify something I missed earlier - the model we offer on Archibald is going to take another shift through perpetual access to Naked for a fee (called membership). Membership also gives access to other initiatives and advantages and the package is now being finalized. The reason we did this is that even with the lower-markup spiel, when it comes to sale time, the price advantage (compared with traditional luxury ie Gucci etc (not smaller, independent makers) is essentially wiped out. This is where the idea of Naked first came about in November 2019. We revived it when the makers were struggling in order to help get them more orders and support their businesses. But through the process we see a value in this shift as it helps people understand what is going on better.

Also, Momotaro is the maker that does ours I believe under the Japan Blue umbrella (it is a larger company). Feel free to message customer support and they can give you more insight.What I understand for our pairs, it is not a stock fabric and we are made to order the fabric and they make as well with the consultancy services offered by the Momotaro team as they do for some of the offerings from brands like Tom Ford etc.

Finally, the approach to different products depends on each case. Some are bought from and made by makers with their own labels and some are made by artisans who don't have their own labels (eyewear, leather bags). In each case, the specification is decided upon together (again and you hope and assume it is stuck with and with most items its pretty obvious to tell) and the development is done together for an Archibald product. At the same time there are items that aren't changed from what the maker makes such as some of the knitwear pieces. Others within the category go through a full overhaul in the specification, sizing, etc. I think that goes without saying but just for the sake of clarification.

If interested, happy to explain further over WhatsApp or via call. It is really busy here what with sorting out this mess but discussions like this allow me to contemplate and improve all aspects of the business. Exposure to viewpoints is paramount both for my personal growth and the success of the business.
 
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j ingevaldsson

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Japan Blue is the maker.. we support makers and brand-makers who offer direct sales. In fact, we are building a marketplace where makers can sell direct as another section of Archibald to champion these smaller independent brand-makers. Makers arent luxury retailers as we define them - Harrods is, Selfridges is, Nordstrom are and a luxury brand that buys from Japan Blue and sells it for $700 a pair for jeans is.
Then you have brands who have entire distribution channels that rely on re-sellers using the traditional retail model. So when MrPorter buy something, they have to make a 3.2 mark-up (2.7 - 3.5) on the item. At the same time the poor brand that sells there does so as it provides the exposure they need to build the business and they hope as it builds majority of the sales will be made directly through their own channels - where they will receive the additional 3.2 mark-ups for themselves.
So assuming the brand is taking a 2.5x mark-up from what they are purchasing it for and then they have to give the retailer they sell to a 3.2x mark-up - you end up in a situation where an item made for x is sold for 8x.
The retailer needs that margin because of the cost of re-selling an item and also because in today's world majority of the sales come during sale time. So they aren't bad people, it's just the system.

The brand realizes how price-sensitive customers really are and sets up the outlet channel, often commissioning lesser items.

Now that is in a mid-tier product. High luxury items that are made by bigger brands mean more of an inventory risk and therefore a higher mark-up. On top of that, we live in a world where quality is judged by price. So before we knew anything about the many brands we have been exposed to on Styleforum, I thought the best shoes were John Lobb and Berluti. The idea of something as beautiful and pure as Yohei Fukuda as a non-bespoke shoe was foreign. That is reserved for a niche community and it shouldn't and I have never had the opportunity to get near one.

Normal direct-to-consumer applying the term to tech brands works for a specific market and that is entry-level product sold for a slightly better price. By working with makers and artisans like the ones we work with (let's ignore Adriano and his duplicitous actions) we offer a slightly different approach where its a higher luxury item.
The other side of what we do and the flywheel we have tried to build is that there is an insistence on integrating feedback and improvement of the product. So with every release, we take the feedback received and improve the next run. This is exactly what happened with the SF-01, we made a sneaker with the community, delivered it, got feedback on design flaws, material changes, had someone cut it up on a public forum, he allowed everyone to suggest further changes like using a leather floorboard and not fibreboard etc and we released the v2 which was a success. Again, we are making improvements to the v2 for the next delivered batch and so on...
This approach was what we learned from the Japanese artisans with whom we began this journey with as Archibald Optics. Constant feedback - improvement loop and an understanding there is always an improvement to be made. And if the cost of the item increases with improvement, no problem. The underlying mission is providing a value proposition on a mass scale, that is cross-category (not fashion alone) and subsequently, a platform where brands that do the same can offer their items and makers can also directly do so.

What we found in this community is a wonderful group of product obsessives who also know value. For the group that participates with us, it allows us to work together to develop (deliver and improve) a product and connect it with a value proposition. At the end of the day, the item also has to have commercial appeal and balance. So yes we can make items that are made with every OTT technique required to make them the very, very best, but that will lose commercial appeal unless people can acquire them.

Brands are also not retailers as per our definition, they are brands. Apple is a brand. They do not own their entire supply chain, yet when you buy from Apple you are buying directly a product commissioned by Apple. That product with the Apple logo on it would not exist if Apple did not commission it.

I think it is important to realize that we do not stand against the independent makers you all love and support. We support them and we think they need more spotlight on them. They sell direct or oftentimes through smaller boutiques that do not apply such high multiples on the product. We want to help get their stories out there even if they did as just like with some of the more designed items from designer luxury labels that sell with high multiples - sometimes, its simply art. This is also why, in our offering, we always focus on basics.

Regarding the wallet - The product says handmade, not hand-stitched. Also not marketed as hand-stitched, it's marketed as handmade as is correct terminology used for the piece given the many hand-processes involved. And it is made by an artisan and yes she might not finger-stitch the wallet but if she did it would perhaps cost us more and have to be sold for more.

The eyewear is made using machines to help in some processes, like a polisher for example. It spins and the craftsman presses against the polisher to buff them or whatever. He polishes and shines a little without it as well. They are still handmade.

You don't like us and that is ok. Nothing I say, no matter what logic I apply will convince you. But I hope somewhere within you (not the troll-you) but the person, you see what I am saying not to be on our side as such but rather just so you understand.
One maker pulled a fast one, it's rocked us and not because of the matter on a public forum (we would have announced it to everyone regardless) but more so because it has changed the amount of trust we can provide artisans in certain situations and we are remedying the situation both in internal processes as well as with people affected.

Finally, I started this business at the age of 24. I am 32 now and it has never gone according to plan, that is simply how things pan out. It took years for us to get any movement as the market was dominated by the entry-level direct-to-consumer brands such as Warby Parker etc. Our model looks great on paper because it can theoretically convert up people who want a nicer product for a little bit more and convert down people who are exposed to high-quality offerings. The direct-to-consumer approach typically offers products made and priced In reality, because the items made are often so poor the mark-ups they are applying to their product are no different to what traditional retailers (Harrods etc) are providing. This is not true for all as there are brands that also exist in that gap. Again they have high advertising costs to contend with and are backed by venture capitalists who want low acquisition costs and tremendous growth. What happens with these brands is they start to plateau and often times it's pumped heavily so investors can get a quick exit within 10 years and the customers have on average, say 2 purchase cycles (mostly just one) before they "grow up" as such.

But when we launched on this day in 2014, despite the press attention the fact that we were ultimately mid-market priced for a high luxury product (Japanese eyewear) it meant the people who could afford it or owned Japanese handmade eyewear didn't believe the proposition (they weren't like you guys, I mean the masses) and the people who couldn't didn't understand or experience quality. So acquisition cost is higher but because the product was an ultimately good product and had a true value, the lifetime value of the customer is also significantly higher due to re-order. Over the years, we started to see a shift, and now more and more people are gravitating toward a value-led purchase. You also see some of the newer d2c brands coming out with higher quality product offerings and the model we employ of D2c luxe if you will is starting to be increasingly vindicated.

And again, I know this might not do anything for you and you don't care, etc and perhaps even a bunch of people will jump at it and rally... that is ok.
I don't know much about other areas than shoes, so I won't go into how you work there, but if I look at what you are offering on the shoe side and how you are and have been marketing that on your site and here on SF, I can't get that together with your constant statements of being "disruptive", "transparent" and have "high ethics". Here you are, in my eyes, just as misleading as other "direct to consumer" brands that you often have been criticising in the way you present your business approach and the products, you push the presentations, use selective comparisons only tweaked to work to your advantage, and even have straight out false info just to the same degree or more.

I've already been through why I can't see the thing you are doing "disruptive" at all in the classic shoe industry, so I'll leave that (to update products consecutively and use input from customers is certainly not something new, and marketplaces for small "artisans" are also around since way back, in the shoe world we even had one specialised one, The World of Shoes, who eventually went under). But some other things I wonder about. You say that you didn't know how things were, in this case, but now so many people have told you how things actually are and for a long time, yet you for example still kept that irrelevant comparison to Lobb and Berluti on the site (until the non-hand welted thing broke). You still call the "Goodyear sneakers" a game changer and still state that they have "all the advantages" and can be resoled as regular Goodyear welted shoes, despite for a long time people have made you aware of the fact that they aren't. You have a long article up about the "fake news in men's dress shoes" where you bash brands calling their Goodyear welted shoes for handmade when you had come to learn that Goodyear welting is done by machine, yet you call all your sneakers (and wallets etc) that are solely machine stitched "handmade" yourself (I know you are not the only ones here, I've been criticising this devaluation and inaccurate use of the terms "handmade" and "handcrafted" for over a decade now). And so on. As I said, I don't know the other areas of products, but some input from others who do, seem to indicate that at least to some extent you do things the same way there.

So, can you explain why, given the above, me and others should still believe your claims of being "disruptive", "transparent" and have "high ethics"?

Edit: As a note, I've been involved in similar discussions on similar topics above with several other brands though the years, so it's not only Archibald's way of marketing things that I find problematic and question directly with the persons involved. I think this is one sad thing that the internet era has brought with it, the constant need to push communications to sound like you are doing something more special than you are, to try to stand out in this global world of competition. It's a downwards winding spiral that I'm sad to say I see no way out off.
 
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ArchibaldRoh

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I don't know much about other areas than shoes, so I won't go into how you work there, but if I look at what you are offering on the shoe side and how you are and have been marketing that on your site and here on SF, I can't get that together with your constant statements of being "disruptive", "transparent" and have "high ethics". Here you are, in my eyes, just as misleading as other "direct to consumer" brands that you often have been criticising in the way you present your business approach and the products, you push the presentations, use selective comparisons only tweaked to work to your advantage, and even have straight out false info just to the same degree or more.

I've already been through why I can't see the thing you are doing "disruptive" at all in the classic shoe industry, so I'll leave that (to update products consecutively and use input from customers is certainly not something new, and marketplaces for small "artisans" are also around since way back, in the shoe world we even had one specialised one, The World of Shoes, who eventually went under). But some other things I wonder about. You say that you didn't know how things were, in this case, but now so many people have told you how things actually are and for a long time, yet you for example still kept that irrelevant comparison to Lobb and Berluti on the site (until the non-hand welted thing broke). You still call the "Goodyear sneakers" a game changer and still state that they have "all the advantages" and can be resoled as regular Goodyear welted shoes, despite for a long time people have made you aware of the fact that they aren't. You have a long article up about the "fake news in men's dress shoes" where you bash brands calling their Goodyear welted shoes for handmade when you had come to learn that Goodyear welting is done by machine, yet you call all your sneakers (and wallets etc) that are solely machine stitched "handmade" yourself (I know you are not the only ones here, I've been criticising this devaluation and inaccurate use of the terms "handmade" and "handcrafted" for over a decade now). And so on. As I said, I don't know the other areas of products, but some input from others who do, seem to indicate that at least to some extent you do things the same way there.

So, can you explain why, given the above, me and others should still believe your claims of being "disruptive", "transparent" and have "high ethics"?
Hi, you and I have had quite an exchange over time and I am happy to explain and speak with you over it all and explain it in full if you are truly curious. I am further happy to send you articles of items we offer so you, as someone running a business and supporting certain brands want to make a fair assesment of what we are doing (aside from the classic shoes which we are victims of a bait and switch since April 2020 aside). Perhaps even with the earlier classic shoes (actual examples for sale not samples to check construction) as no doubt your expertise can help. Again I am not asking for anything public, nothing.. But if you are truly interested in understanding then happy to walk you through it and debate.

But lets speak instead of doing it via text impersonally. I think the two of us have to restart of sorts. If you are open to it.

And regarding the cordovan special edition sneakers, they will be goodyear as per the use of the goodyear machine and the artisans branding of his method. Furthermore, with regards to the description, I intend to take your advice and ammend. But i do not entirely agree with everything you are saying on those as a I contacted cobblers in London and they all said no to resoling a Common Projects because they tear. There is a clear advantage to the method to keep the upper intact. But again happy to speak and go through it further over the phone.

The use of handmade is correct. The use of a sewing machine does not make an item not handmade particularly when they are sitting there slowly doing each stitch carefully. In the same way most makers machine stitch their soles on their shoes, handmade is still used. Hand - stitched soles are a further method that people charge extra for yet shoes with machine stitched soles are still handmade.

I clarified the handmade example with the eyewear. Again if your intention is to understand more, happy to speak with you and perhaps its a chance for us to reconcile as men. I have made mistakes and I am big enough to admit to mine.

The fake news article was targetted at again high luxury commercial brands that market an item that is goodyear welted as handmade in full. If you ask their sales reps if a machine is used for the welt, they say no. These arent people like you and the public has not come to understand that goodyear shoes arent handmade fully or entirely handmade. It was written in 2018 and is the story of how we ended up on SF. And the reason we wrote it was because we ourselves were made to understand that Goodyear was a type of construction and not by definition one that made use of the machine.

Finally where we differ is take Warby Parker for instance, made in china with Chinese lenses. The quality is pretty much entry level eyewear. Ours are made in Japan by artisans who make for brands such as Barton Perreira and we make no compromise in the spec often ticking the highest offer on each part and offering Japanese prescription and non-prescription lenses. That is the difference in the two direct to consumer, no middlemen approaches. We take the approach of a more boutique, higher quality, artisan made product sold online through a very specific and strict markup structure.
 
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taxgenius

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Hi, you and I have had quite an exchange over time and I am happy to explain and speak with you over it all and explain it in full if you are truly curious. I am further happy to send you articles of items we offer so you, as someone running a business and supporting certain brands want to make a fair assesment of what we are doing (aside from the classic shoes which we are victims of a bait and switch since April 2020 aside). Perhaps even with the earlier classic shoes (actual examples for sale not samples to check construction) as no doubt your expertise can help. Again I am not asking for anything public, nothing.. But if you are truly interested in understanding then happy to walk you through it and debate.

But lets speak instead of doing it via text impersonally. I think the two of us have to restart of sorts. If you are open to it.

And regarding the cordovan special edition sneakers, they will be goodyear as per the use of the goodyear machine and the artisans branding of his method. Furthermore, with regards to the description, I intend to take your advice and ammend. But i do not entirely agree with everything you are saying on those as a I contacted cobblers in London and they all said no to resoling a Common Projects because they tear. There is a clear advantage to the method to keep the upper intact. But again happy to speak and go through it further over the phone.

The use of handmade is correct. The use of a sewing machine does not make an item not handmade particularly when they are sitting there slowly doing each stitch carefully.
In the same way most makers machine stitch their soles on their shoes, handmade is still used. Hand - stitched soles are a further method that people charge extra for yet shoes with machine stitched soles are still handmade.

I clarified the handmade example with the eyewear. Again if your intention is to understand more, happy to speak with you and perhaps its a chance for us to reconcile as men. I have made mistakes and I am big enough to admit to mine.

The fake news article was targetted at again high luxury commercial brands that market an item that is goodyear welted as handmade in full. If you ask their sales reps if a machine is used for the welt, they say no. These arent people like you and the public has not come to understand that goodyear shoes arent handmade fully or entirely handmade. It was written in 2018 and is the story of how we ended up on SF. And the reason we wrote it was because we ourselves were made to understand that Goodyear was a type of construction and not by definition one that made use of the machine.

Finally where we differ is take Warby Parker for instance, made in china with Chinese lenses. The quality is pretty much entry level eyewear. Ours are made in Japan by artisans who make for brands such as Barton Perreira and we make no compromise in the spec often ticking the highest offer on each part and offering Japanese prescription and non-prescription lenses. That is the difference in the two direct to consumer, no middlemen approaches. We take the approach of a more boutique, higher quality, artisan made product sold online through a very specific and strict markup structure.
Based on your description (bolded above) why aren't GYW shoes considered handmade? A human needs to stich it carefully using the machine. There are many videos on Youtube that can attest to this.
 

JustPullHarder

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Based on your description (bolded above) why aren't GYW shoes considered handmade? A human needs to stich it carefully using the machine. There are many videos on Youtube that can attest to this.
Wait until he finds out that the workers drove to the factory in these mechanical machines that use vaporised flammable liquids to spin these metal rods and through a set of gears use mechanical advantage to get them to work.
 

Verrihappy

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He is just a quack, charlatan and snake oil salesman. Glad that his BS hype, fraudulent claims and downright lies were busted big time.
 
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dieworkwear

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The use of handmade is correct. The use of a sewing machine does not make an item not handmade particularly when they are sitting there slowly doing each stitch carefully. In the same way most makers machine stitch their soles on their shoes, handmade is still used. Hand - stitched soles are a further method that people charge extra for yet shoes with machine stitched soles are still handmade.
Each category of items tends to have its own specific criteria for when it's considered handmade. Suits, shoes, small leather goods, glasses, etc. Knowing when something is considered handmade requires a bit of knowledge of that category, the market, and the history of that type of production.
 

haloitsme

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Each category of items tends to have its own specific criteria for when it's considered handmade. Suits, shoes, small leather goods, glasses, etc. Knowing when something is considered handmade requires a bit of knowledge of that category, the market, and the history of that type of production.
Pardon, but isn’t handmade a very loosely used term and is based on the country of manufacture and is written in specific (law) ways what can be named handmade and what not?
Example, Handmade in Italy is a different handmade than made in France.
In Italy handmade is very fast granted, France not so easy.
 

clee1982

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think DWW is talking about different thing, for example when people talking about hand made leather good my assumption would be talking about saddle stitch vs. machine-sewn lock stitch.
 

dieworkwear

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Pardon, but isn’t handmade a very loosely used term and is based on the country of manufacture and is written in specific (law) ways what can be named handmade and what not?
Example, Handmade in Italy is a different handmade than made in France.
In Italy handmade is very fast granted, France not so easy.
No, it's not based on country of manufacture.

It's true that the term is loosely used. But if someone cares about accuracy and transparency, then there are certain standards for each category of item for when something is considered handmade, at least among people who care about the term.
 
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