Appearance Disdain among the Very Intelligent

[tiecollector]

Originally Posted by mr.loverman

i

some highly intelligent people never adopt the geek image. they say a lot of redneck motorhead kids are super smart.


I was at a job interview last year and this guy knew a shitload about electronics, stuff I hadn't even learned in college. Turns out he was a horse-owning redneck who had only a GED.

I think there are many different types of intelligence. I think being able to think of new ways of doing things and showing innovation is the best kind. People often think the Chinese are really smart because they can churn out numbers, which certainly takes a certain type of intelligence to be able to take something, copy it and reproduce it, but I would rather be able to go against common thinking like Einstein, Gauss, etc.

Some poor, fat slobs can't add 2+2 or figure out how to hard boil an egg, but they can go to a car, take it apart, and overhaul parts of an engine with no more than an ass hair, paper clip and some bubble gum.

Originally Posted by LA Guy

Of course, there are also remarkably stupid people in the world as well. Yesterday, I bought lunch at the cafeteria (really bad food, fyi.) I handed the cashier a twenty, and before I had time to give her the additional $1.75 so that I could get a ten and a five back, the cashier had rung me up. $13.43 change. Fair enough. I handed her the $1.75. Not so hard to figure out that now she ought to give me a five, and ten, and 18 cents, right? It's simple arithmetic. The dude at the newstand could compute the sum. This college student stood there for a full two minutes trying to add 13.43 and 1.75. I walked her through it, "13+1=$14. Then, add 75 and 43 cents. That's $1.18. Another way to add those two numbers is imagine 5 quarters, then subtract 7 cents." She still couldn't figure it out. Nearly gave me just the $5. I want to hack her little computer, so that if she is given an odd amount, say, $7.53, then the change will ring up as $100, every time. I could make a killing buying lunch. I'm not sure what her major is, but I really hope that it is nothing I ever have to rely on.

This is a bad example. The numbers weren't even whole numbers. I help my grandma out sometimes and I basically am there just to take people's money. Sometimes I can add things up 5 at a time, others, I can't even do 1.95 + 1.95 in my head because I'm so tired of crunching numbers for 8 hours straight. There is a natural tendency is to take the the whole number to round down, instead of rounding up and then subtracting the difference.

 

[Violinist]

Originally Posted by Brian278

No one learns anything of value in four years of high school? Come on, now you sound ridiculous. U.S. Government/Comparative Politics, Music Theory, Psychology, Economics, English Literature, Statistics, all at a college level, has no value? If you have to spend 7 hours a day in a class, yeah, you give a **** whether the class is constantly going over things for 2 class periods what you pick up in one. You've got a pretty narrow idea of what a "normal" person is if you think that no normal person should care about this, never mind your assertion that caring about what goes on in class makes someone boring. He wasn't a bookworm, rather the opposite, and thinking for more than 2 seconds about school doesn't make you a nerd or exclude you from playing sports or getting boners.

And again, it's not about not being able to interact with less intelligent people, it's about the frustration with being surrounded with people with different perspectives based on their intelligence and the alienation that comes with that. It's not unlike being a much better basketball player than everyone at a pickup game, or being an advanced saxophonist in a band full of beginners---it's just often not enjoyable if it's not challenging, and if you're not relating on the same level.

American public schools are some of the worst in the G8. Canada's are a bit better, and everything I learned was from reading books. Highschool is more about teaching patterns and an idiots guide to critical thinking. The actual facts and perspectives are quite easy. If you're smart enough to pick up on the pattern, you can basically go throughout all of highschool telling teachers what they want to hear on tests, exams, and papers, and people will think you're the smartest person in the world. Undergraduate isn't that different unless you're in the hard sciences.

Smart people find something to interest them, they're never bored. I have many examples... the fact is, there's geeks/nerds, and there are smart people. Only some nerds are smart... most are just smart compared to the average person who wants to become a fireman or hair stylist.

 

[tiecollector]

Originally Posted by Violinist

Smart people find something to interest them, they're never bored. I have many examples... the fact is, there's geeks/nerds, and there are smart people. Only some nerds are smart... most are just smart compared to the average person who wants to become a fireman or hair stylist.
I have field tested this at Fry's and Circuit City.

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by Brian278

And again, it's not about not being able to interact with less intelligent people, it's about the frustration with being surrounded with people with different perspectives based on their intelligence and the alienation that comes with that. It's not unlike being a much better basketball player than everyone at a pickup game, or being an advanced saxophonist in a band full of beginners---it's just often not enjoyable if it's not challenging, and if you're not relating on the same level.


thank you, this is what I was trying to communicate. I am not saying that this frustration makes every genious nuts, but it contributes to the social situation and attitude of the extremly bright.

I am pretty bright, on the range that is pretty high of what you will normally meet, but not a super genious, by any means. my childhood memories are filled with situations where I was trying to explain something to people, often people in authority, who were not intellegent enough to understand me. maybe 10 times a week, I hold off from correcting somebody, or from clarifying a statment that somebody made that is inaccurate. I have an excellent proffetional reputation as a communicator, and my trick is that I dumb down everything I say. daily, I hold my tongue when I know the answer to something, in order to let others answer.


now, a person with a 160 IQ doesn't experience this 10% more than I would, he experiences it maybe 10 times as much as I do. a person with an IQ of 180 expereinces it maybe 100 times as much. I can understand how frustrating that could be.

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

thank you, this is what I was trying to communicate. I am not saying that this frustration makes every genious nuts, but it contributes to the social situation and attitude of the extremly bright.

I am pretty bright, on the range that is pretty high of what you will normally meet, but not a super genious, by any means. my childhood memories are filled with situations where I was trying to explain something to people, often people in authority, who were not intellegent enough to understand me. maybe 10 times a week, I hold off from correcting somebody, or from clarifying a statment that somebody made that is inaccurate. I have an excellent proffetional reputation as a communicator, and my trick is that I dumb down everything I say. daily, I hold my tongue when I know the answer to something, in order to let others answer.


now, a person with a 160 IQ doesn't experience this 10% more than I would, he experiences it maybe 10 times as much as I do. a person with an IQ of 180 expereinces it maybe 100 times as much. I can understand how frustrating that could be.

The inability to communicate fully a life you only experience through your own sensations and their ensuing perceptions is an integral part of the human experience, I see no reason to believe this to be linked to intelligence. I think people greatly overevaluate their own intelligence (whatever that is) and the way the one possessed by their interlocutor may impede communication. Not counting Redcaiman's nuclear fish of course, this one is an exception

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

I think people greatly overevaluate their own intelligence

that is what IQ tests are for.

 

[Violinist]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

that is what IQ tests are for.

No, that really isn't what they're for.

I doubt Winston Churchill would have scored favourably on an IQ test.

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by Violinist

No, that really isn't what they're for.

I doubt Winston Churchill would have scored favourably on an IQ test.

Actually, he probably would have scored well. Of course, this is speculative, since, AFAIK, Churchill never took an IQ test, but his life followed the classic pattern of someone with extremely high intelligence, starting from his underachievement in school.

Man, do I have to put you in the "dumb and bitter" category as well

 

[HomerJ]

Here, how about everyone take this test http://www.mensa.org/index0.php?page=12 If you score less than 29, stop posting

btw, this will be my last post

 

[TyCooN]

Originally Posted by mr.loverman

i think a lot of geeks aren't all that intelligent. they are just social outcasts so they focus their energy on schoolwork because that's all that they are good at. they feel intimidated and uncomfortable around the cool kids so they just develop their own subculture. maybe they failed to fit in with the cool crowd so they joined the geeks. they are jealous because they aren't getting any ass. geeks love to talk trash about other people. how shallow they are etc. they are douchebags just like everyone else. they hate good looking people and say how they only care about looks etc. anyway can you really say someone is smart if they are good at math but ****** with people?

someone with a 120 IQ with great social skills will be way more succesful than someone with a 180 IQ but poor social skills. the latter will end up working their ass off for the other people's benefit. think einstien. he got used.


some highly intelligent people never adopt the geek image. they say a lot of redneck motorhead kids are super smart.

dressing well takes a certain type of intelligence. people with that part of the brain can learn to dress well even if they don't care how they dress now. some people could never learn to dress well. that's why there is such demand for image consultants. some people are style marsupialed.
+1

 

[Rambo]

I think you guys are bleeding two different categories of intelligence: social intelligence and cognitive intelligence. Basically - book smart vs. street smart. I've found IQ tests to be completely useless in the real world. I know a fair share of people who have sky high IQ's and are dumb as bricks when it comes to managing certain tasks. They can deconstruct Proust all day but can't set up their Tivo because the manual is too confusing.

Also, IQ tests can't and don't relate to all relative tasks. What I mean by this is high intelligence does not confer an ability to do all things that one might endeavor. Almost anybody can be trained to do a certain task, the only difference being the amount of time that person will take to absorb and reinterpret the information. Somebody with a high IQ may be able to do it faster than a low IQ person, but it's no guarantee.

 

[TyCooN]

IQ tests don't measure will power, confidence, social skills, leadership, and charisma.

 

[Violinist]

Originally Posted by LA Guy

Actually, he probably would have scored well. Of course, this is speculative, since, AFAIK, Churchill never took an IQ test, but his life followed the classic pattern of someone with extremely high intelligence, starting from his underachievement in school.

Man, do I have to put you in the "dumb and bitter" category as well

I am not wanting where these stupid tests are concerned.

Churchill had fairly poor math skills. I doubt he would have done that well.

 

[brimley]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

I have an excellent proffetional reputation as a communicator, and my trick is that I dumb down everything I say. daily, I hold my tongue when I know the answer to something, in order to let others answer.

This brings to mind a graduate seminar I take which aims to expose people to different fields by bringing in speakers from all over the sciences. Now this seminar is for pretty bright people, in general, but every talk that is given is almost all background and glossed results--the dumbed down version. Why? Because the breadth of knowledge in the sciences is beyond what can be picked up purely by intuition or Big IQ Prowess.

Nobody wants to be made to feel stupid just like nobody wants to be made to feel ugly. How is ego-stroking a client's intelligence any different from, say, ego-stroking their looks?

Originally Posted by globetrotter

I didn't say that, I said that most people simply can't understand the point of view of somebody with an IQ difference of 20, and when you make that 40, or 80, you are almost a different species to each other.

how many conversations have you had with a mentally handicaped person? now, imagine that everybody you talked to was mentally handicapped, and all media was aimed at the mentally handicaped, and that, maybe once a year, or maybe once every two years, you met somebody who wasn't mentally handicapped. how would your sanity last under those circomstances?

imagine that you are 5, and you find that you are a little brighter than your teacher, a little quicker than her. how would that make you feel? now, at 15, imagine that you have been in an education system where you have always been a little quicker than any of your teachers. how would that make you feel?

Making the comparison to the mentally handicapped is invalid in almost all circumstances. Even a person with an absurdly high IQ has the ability to take something away from conversation with someone who is not as bright as them if they make the effort. Maybe the delivery won't be as full of innuendo and wordplay as it would have been from a fellow Big IQ Dude, but that's not the issue. Even an adult of below-average intelligence can get from point A to point B in a story. A mental handicap can break the interaction completely.

I've had plenty of experiences where I was brighter than a teacher or bored in a high school (or higher level) class. Who cares? The important parts of high school do not involve book learning. Modern day high school is more about baby sitting and safety than intellectual development. Even a dimwitted teacher can teach a genius something, they'll just pick it up faster than a normal person.

Do I have trouble communicating with people? Sure. I'm a graduate student in a branch of physics that is sufficiently obscure that 95% of the people I meet have never heard of it. After this long in academia, it becomes difficult to relate to people who have a better ratio of years as a student to years alive. But that's not because they're dumb; it's because I haven't been smart enough and enthusiastic enough to maintain proficiency of their language, their mindset. Being unable to explain my thesis work to a person 40 points deficient in IQ (which I have) is no different from being unable to explain it to my IQ-equal message board companion. It just means that I don't understand my work and my companion well enough--so maybe I'm not as intelligent as that IQ score indicated.

Originally Posted by Fuuma

The inability to communicate fully a life you only experience through your own sensations and their ensuing perceptions is an integral part of the human experience, I see no reason to believe this to be linked to intelligence.

Well put. This pretty much wins the discussion.

 

[Garage/Surf Rock]

Everyone speaks of this issue as if analytical skills are here and social skills are over there, and that there's no interaction between the two. I think the human brain is a little more complicated. It's not like if I'm good at math, my brain is full of numbers and I can't learn to dress well; or if I'm fashion conscious my brain is full of wardrobe concerns and I can't learn math. It's a matter of putting in effort.

Also, is math/science the only kind of intelligence, while all other things are limited to the realm of instinct? This question doesn't even make any sense. What does that mean that intelligent people have a disdain for appearance? What kind of intelligent people, and how or why would anyone want to generalize a whole group of people who all happen to be "very intelligent." The question is nonsensical and confusing. It needs to be reframed, nothing meaningful can come of trying to answer this.