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anyone ever use tom fords mtm program?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by AvariceBespoke, Nov 16, 2008.

  1. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    This is sig-worthy.


    Because it's a patent lie?

    If this is true: "Every single item of clothing I own has irreplaceable value because it means so much more to me and is not just an item of clothing that sits on my back," then please explain this, this, this, this and this.
     


  2. vitaminc

    vitaminc Senior member

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    It is not possible to separate the technical aspect and the aesthetic aspect of either cutting or tailoring. The discussion of these are the self same thing.

    By "irreplaceable value" in themselves is there not a danger that this means that you got to have the "authentic" TF label on it because he paid to dress James Bond? The value being merely that of the advertiser-created "mystique" surrounding the label? Perhaps I have missed something, for in objective terms, where else does the "irreplaceable value" lie?

    Of course, we worship bespoke - it is just about perfection of fit and quality of workmanship. What else is there to worship? The label?


    Again, it could fit perfectly but the silhouette might look ridiculous.

    There is not much difference between a tailoring house and a label when the name of the tailoring house becomes the label itself. At certain point of tailor selection process you start to ask yourself, which tailor's style you prefer, as the technical capabilities of tailors becomes largely irrelevant. A tailor's style is worth as much as a designer's design.
     


  3. vitaminc

    vitaminc Senior member

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    Because it's a patent lie?

    If this is true: "Every single item of clothing I own has irreplaceable value because it means so much more to me and is not just an item of clothing that sits on my back," then please explain this, this, this, this and this.


    That sir, is what I call a mark-to-market valuation exercise.
     


  4. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    I would also submit that's it is an entirely different form of being a snob, a chase of the esoteric with the mindset that the rarer the item, the "better" it is. This is in complete disregard to how well the garment looks on the body (or in these cases, how bad they look).

    Of course, it's amazing how the mystique of bespoke (old world connotations, exclusivity, tradition, the fitting experience, etc) that probably plays a great part in choosing to go that way gets entirely disregarded. I was also taken back at the lack of knowledge regarding haute couture displayed by some of our luminaries that sorta made it sound like a bespoke shop and were wondering what was the added value of the designer.
     


  5. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Here's my latest tragedy. Fire away, douchebags.

    [​IMG]
     


  6. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    Green moleskin pants? Is that business-friendly?
     


  7. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Prof. Fabulous Dubiously Honored

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    Here's my latest tragedy. Fire away, douchebags. [​IMG]
    I can't see your pants as they blend in with your lawn. Nice jacket, though. [​IMG] (j/k... I find green a very difficult color to pull off, but I think it works on you and looks great.)
     


  8. mack11211

    mack11211 Senior member

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    Green moleskin pants? Is that business-friendly?

    I suspect they are corduroy.

    Note the harmony with Nature.
     


  9. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Green moleskin pants? Is that business-friendly?

    Corduroy.
     


  10. RJmanbearpig

    RJmanbearpig Senior member

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    Here's my latest tragedy. Fire away, douchebags.

    [​IMG]

    Is it me, or do the shoulders look to be at different angles?

    That said, I think it's hard to judge a suit's fit by a picture.
    Unless it's egregiously bad.
     


  11. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    Corduroy.

    Lighting is crazy in your pic then... Anyway I love the pants/shoe combo, looks excellent. I'm not that much into the jacket but it ties in nicely with the stellar bottom part.
     


  12. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Is it me, or do the shoulders look to be at different angles?

    They are, because my shoulders are, and there is no padding. I don't want to be "fixed" by padding.
     


  13. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Of course, it's amazing how the mystique of bespoke (old world connotations, exclusivity, tradition, the fitting experience, etc) that probably plays a great part in choosing to go that way gets entirely disregarded. I was also taken back at the lack of knowledge regarding haute couture displayed by some of our luminaries that sorta made it sound like a bespoke shop and were wondering what was the added value of the designer.

    This is an interesting subject, but you should realize that not all bespoke has these trappings. I have never been to Fiorvanti, but the NY bespoke tailors I have seen have none of the Old World, Very Good Sir, atmosphere. The closest the ones I have visited come is Logsdail, who has tried to make his 5th floor (I think) premises seem like a SR shop, but even that fails. You are clearly on the 5th floor of a Class C office building. Raphael's shop is basically a tailoring workroom, with a reception/fitting space that would embarrass even a third rate dentist. If you get offered an espresso you get it by walking into the workroom in the back. There is nothing fancy or old world about it, unless by old world you mean the old world of small-scale urban manufacturing. And other than the dent in your wallet, you won't leave feeling like you just had a luxury good buying experience.

    The SR experience in London is quite different, as is, I expect, Rubinacci in Naples. There you are clearly buying luxury goods from a high-end "purveyor". The Brits, when they travel to the US, work out of hotel rooms and while they are perfectly polite and over time you can develop a personal relationship, there is no attempt to create the illusion that you are on SR.

    I have often thought it interesting to compare the ambiance of the NY and SR tailors and compare how they got that way. I have some guesses, but never really discussed it with anyone who knows (this is a job for manton).
     


  14. RJmanbearpig

    RJmanbearpig Senior member

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    They are, because my shoulders are, and there is no padding. I don't want to be "fixed" by padding.

    I see. You just want to be loved for you are. Well, that's laudable.
     


  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Perhaps I haven't been as clear as I could have been about my position. To re-boot:

    1. There's nothing inherently wrong with placing importance on 'labels'; afterall, reputation is a significant consideration in choosing a bespoke tailor. So, I see how some members might interpret hypocrisy when fashion brands are dismissed as 'bad values'. But the same members presumptively dismiss the possibility that knowledge might show the reputations of some labels to be less well-deserved.

    2. Many in this discussion have scoffed at the notion of 'copying' what is 'original' to Tom Ford. But not all things are original, and not all original things are original in a meaningful way (ahem, Eric Glennie, anyone?).

    Tom Ford has worked very hard to establish that he is offering something meaningfully original, and many people believe that he has. But the question remains: is a Tom Ford suit a meaningfully original thing? I haven't seen a satisfactory answer in the affirmative. The photo of Ramroop from the 70's alone suggests that Tom Ford's suits are pre-dated in many respects by at least one other source. Is a Ford suit meaningfully different from Ramroop's? Of the differences that can be identified, how many can be explained by customer preference rather than 'design'? If they are true design differences, are they significant? I think anyone should be willing to consider these questions when they want to assert something is 'original'.

    3. When someone says "I like Tom Ford suits," it is not obvious he means that he likes Tom Ford suits in the same way SoCal likes Jil Sander suits (with great emphasis on the label itself). He might just like some, many, or all of the physical features. It might turn out that he wants a wide-lapel, roped shoulder, very lean suit--one that doesn't necessarily have to be by Tom Ford.

    4. SoCal, I am completely perplexed by your efforts to 'support' Jil Sander by buying something you neither want nor need. It seems to me that if you like Jil Sander for what Jil Sander does, you should have enough to buy that you do want or need. It's almost religious of you.
     


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