anyone ever use tom fords mtm program?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by AvariceBespoke, Nov 16, 2008.

  1. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    I must say, I guess I am lucky. I have never had a personal bespoke disaster story. These disasters are things I only see on the internet. If it happens to me it will be of my own making - ie literally, when I have a go at making a coat, waistcoat or trousers myself.

    In fact, I am trying to help develop the LL into a forum for discussing cutting and tailoring. I have grown tired of "does this look cool" discussions. I want to get beyond that and look under the bonnet and the chassis. Unfortunately, most posters in most fora want only to debate who the greatest master arbiter coolorum is.

    Personally, I think that a really good tailor would be able to glean from a picture of a TF/Zegna James Bond creation what it was that attracted the client to it and be able use his imagination to realise what it was about the style that he found attractive. It's not like you've been handed the pattern to cut off along with precise instructions how to make it up for someone with the exact proportions of Daniel Craig. There is a large amount of room for interpretive freedom left.

    Anyway, enough of this, back to my book on how to hand baste the canvas.
     
  2. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    Sator, each piece of garment, OTR, MTM or bespoke, has irreplaceable values themselves asides from the technical specifications you have only been focusing on.

    Tom Ford's designs, or any other designer's for the matter, have life of themselves just as every piece of bespoke garment. And I find the it ridiculous to have a copy surpassing the original in value; no two pieces of garment will be exactly the same, even done by the same tailor using the same cloth with the same patterns let along imitations of TF's patterns. Sure the details could be "better", but they won't have the same stylistic features/values thus largely inferior in the aspect of copying.

    I am not anti-bespoke nor MTM, but just feeling laughable when people worship bespoke or MTM to an extreme.


    It is not possible to separate the technical aspect and the aesthetic aspect of either cutting or tailoring. The discussion of these are the self same thing.

    By "irreplaceable value" in themselves is there not a danger that this means that you got to have the "authentic" TF label on it because he paid to dress James Bond? The value being merely that of the advertiser-created "mystique" surrounding the label? Perhaps I have missed something, for in objective terms, where else does the "irreplaceable value" lie?

    Of course, we worship bespoke - it is just about perfection of fit and quality of workmanship. What else is there to worship? The label?
     
  3. SoCal2NYC

    SoCal2NYC Fashion Hayzus

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    It is not possible to separate the technical aspect and the aesthetic aspect of either cutting or tailoring. The discussion of these are the self same thing.

    By "irreplaceable value" in themselves is there not a danger that this means that you got to have the "authentic" TF label on it because he paid to dress James Bond? The value being merely that of the advertiser-created "mystique" surrounding the label? Perhaps I have missed something, for in objective terms, where else does the "irreplaceable value" lie?

    Of course, we worship bespoke - it is just about perfection of fit and quality of workmanship. What else is there to worship? The label?


    Every single item of clothing I own has irreplaceable value because it means so much more to me and is not just an item of clothing that sits on my back.

    What if you fit perfectly into a RTW suit? You can bespeak a horribly fitting bespoke suit. It's a dieing breed and if you may not like to think it; but, with the current state of things it comes down to $$. I don't care what the house style is, if I went into any of them and wanted 5 Thom Browne like bespoke suits and jackets they would gladly make them for me. Would those garments then be worshiped by you because of the perfection of the fit and the quality of workmanship? I think not. However, the quality and the fit of my RTW Thom Browne suits and jackets that I already own are exactly what I'm looking for. So why go bespoke? There are too many here who are afraid to just give in to what they like and what they want and man up to that. The few of us who do, myself included, usually receive some sort of vitriol from a few members of the forum. "Oh for $4,000 you don't have to buy Thom Browne and you can get something that actually fits and looks good." Says who?

    The anti-label mentality of this forum is absurd. It's funny how so many think they are much more astute or above the average consumer because for them it's all about quality and fit becuase they are not slaves to marketing. I'd like to run through their house, cupboard, pantry, garage, etc and see what labeled and name brand things can be found aside from clothing. It's easy to come on the internet and tap away and pick and choose the way you wish you lived your life via how you talk about clothing; but, it's another thing to put it out there and actually show that you're encompassing the entire lifestyle. I used to go off and on hating LabelKing for thinking he was some reborn aesthete buying all of this old shit on eBay while living in the Bay Area with his parents; but, he's become more and more enduring as we've seen pictures of him out and about as such and now I love the little guy.
     
  4. gnatty8

    gnatty8 Senior member

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    Usually, the judgement of "fit" in "critique my suit" threads is based on how good the photography is, and secondarily how good looking the poster is. If a rather stout, or stooping and older OP wore an absolutely beautifully fitting and styled coat that had been cut to perfection to maximally flatter what he had, they'd still bleat incessantly. Never mind that the tailor has to work much harder to flatter those who are less well endowed by nature.

    I have to agree with Sator on this one..
     
  5. yfyf

    yfyf Affiliate vendor Affiliate Vendor

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    I used to go off and on hating LabelKing for thinking he was some reborn aesthete buying all of this old shit on eBay while living in the Bay Area with his parents; but, he's become more and more enduring as we've seen pictures of him out and about as such and now I love the little guy.
    Let the healing begin. Sorry, no sarcasm intended.
     
  6. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Every single item of clothing I own has irreplaceable value because it means so much more to me and is not just an item of clothing that sits on my back.

    What if you fit perfectly into a RTW suit? You can bespeak a horribly fitting bespoke suit. It's a dieing breed and if you may not like to think it; but, with the current state of things it comes down to $$. I don't care what the house style is, if I went into any of them and wanted 5 Thom Browne like bespoke suits and jackets they would gladly make them for me. Would those garments then be worshiped by you because of the perfection of the fit and the quality of workmanship? I think not. However, the quality and the fit of my RTW Thom Browne suits and jackets that I already own are exactly what I'm looking for. So why go bespoke? There are too many here who are afraid to just give in to what they like and what they want and man up to that. The few of us who do, myself included, usually receive some sort of vitriol from a few members of the forum. "Oh for $4,000 you don't have to buy Thom Browne and you can get something that actually fits and looks good." Says who?

    The anti-label mentality of this forum is absurd. It's funny how so many think they are much more astute or above the average consumer because for them it's all about quality and fit becuase they are not slaves to marketing. I'd like to run through their house, cupboard, pantry, garage, etc and see what labeled and name brand things can be found aside from clothing. It's easy to come on the internet and tap away and pick and choose the way you wish you lived your life via how you talk about clothing; but, it's another thing to put it out there and actually show that you're encompassing the entire lifestyle. I used to go off and on hating LabelKing for thinking he was some reborn aesthete buying all of this old shit on eBay while living in the Bay Area with his parents; but, he's become more and more enduring as we've seen pictures of him out and about as such and now I love the little guy.


    There is much in here that is not idiotic.
     
  7. yfyf

    yfyf Affiliate vendor Affiliate Vendor

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    --

    Out of curiosity, how would you rate your MTM Jil Sander suit? Do you find it fits better than your other stuff? Or no difference? Do you appreciate it because you got to choose your own fabric and a few small details?
     
  8. SoCal2NYC

    SoCal2NYC Fashion Hayzus

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    Out of curiosity, how would you rate your MTM Jil Sander suit? Do you find it fits better than your other stuff? Or no difference? Do you appreciate it because you got to choose your own fabric and a few small details?

    Honestly Jil off the rack fits me fine so I had no real reason to get a MTM suit other than:
    A) Wanting one
    B) Wanting my name inside on the label with Jil Sander
    C) To experience the process
    D) Support their new business venture
     
  9. SoCal2NYC

    SoCal2NYC Fashion Hayzus

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    There is much in here that is not idiotic.

    [​IMG] kisses
     
  10. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Prof. Fabulous Dubiously Honored

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    There is much in here that is not idiotic.

    Litotes FTW!!!
     
  11. lee_44106

    lee_44106 Senior member

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    The anti-label mentality of this forum is absurd. It's funny how so many think they are much more astute or above the average consumer because for them it's all about quality and fit becuase they are not slaves to marketing. I'd like to run through their house, cupboard, pantry, garage, etc and see what labeled and name brand things can be found aside from clothing. It's easy to come on the internet and tap away and pick and choose the way you wish you lived your life via how you talk about clothing; but, it's another thing to put it out there and actually show that you're encompassing the entire lifestyle. I used to go off and on hating LabelKing for thinking he was some reborn aesthete buying all of this old shit on eBay while living in the Bay Area with his parents; but, he's become more and more enduring as we've seen pictures of him out and about as such and now I love the little guy.


    I would also submit that's it is an entirely different form of being a snob, a chase of the esoteric with the mindset that the rarer the item, the "better" it is. This is in complete disregard to how well the garment looks on the body (or in these cases, how bad they look).
     
  12. RJmanbearpig

    RJmanbearpig Senior member

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    Actually, most of them were Darren.
    [​IMG]

    I was going to suggest that there is a happy medium of reasonableness between Sator's catty dogma and vitaminc's implacable "besp0ke suxxxx!!11!!1! LOL", but found that SoCal hit that note of reason perfectly.

    Every single item of clothing I own has irreplaceable value because it means so much more to me and is not just an item of clothing that sits on my back.
    This is sig-worthy.
    Some of us even live our lives by the 1902 Sears catalogue. Uh-oh, now Sator is going to attack me on the more advanced forum because I don't read it or post there.

    FTFY. Also it seems like socialization has been good for him. He's even using some of the kids' speak like "spendy".

    Litotes FTW!!!
    I thought in English it's "understatement".
     
  13. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Prof. Fabulous Dubiously Honored

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    I thought in English it's "understatement".
    Oh, boo-urns to you. Of all people who should not be unimpressed with a word like "litotes," it's you, manholebearpig!! [​IMG]
     
  14. yfyf

    yfyf Affiliate vendor Affiliate Vendor

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    Oh, boo-urns to you. Of all people who should not be unimpressed with a word like "litotes," it's you, manholebearpig!! [​IMG]

    I'd google "litotes" but last time I googled something you wrote, it made me [​IMG]
     
  15. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    Did you ever notice that most of the bespoke tragedies are tragic in your eyes only?

    Didn't Sophocle write something about some guy's toga not fitting him well? It was quite tragic if I remember correctly.
     

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