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Any One for a Scotch?

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by French Cuff Consignment, Dec 14, 2006.

  1. ama

    ama Senior member

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    I don't understand, what Macallan were you drinking before?


    http://www.whiskyshop.com/Shop/Hibiki-30-year-old-PID3414.aspx

    Also, they have it: http://www.hedonism.co.uk

    I can't imagine what would possess you to drop a over a K on it though.
     
  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Well, that's a point....

    I guess they could go to all the trouble of creating their own thread...so onerous. Or they could post in "What Are You Drinking Right Now?"

    The basic problem is that it's a lot like posting pictures of Alden shoes in the Gaziano and Girling thead. One wonders if it's just laziness or an attempt to garner credibility by association.

    In any case, by definition, OT.
     
  3. b1os

    b1os Senior member

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    Again? :confused:
    I understand, it's been a year and it's such a pressing issue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Well, of course, the only reason I mention it is to irritate you...personally.

    The bonus is that it invites you to be an ass--a part that seems to come naturally to you..

    It's almost too easy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  5. embowafa

    embowafa Senior member

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    Starting a completely new thread over distinctions between Japanese and Scotch Whisky is text book nit picking.

    I think we're all well read enough on the subject to be able to distinguish between the two without ruining the thread's good name.
     
  6. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

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    Agreed. I don't often drink Japanese whisky, but it is clearly Scotch in spirit. Starting a separate thread for it seems silly.
     
  7. djblisk

    djblisk Senior member

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  8. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Maybe yes, maybe no. As I said , I don't honestly care one way or the other.

    But the distinction is real and it does exist...in law.

    And incidentally when we...or more likely newbies ...invest time and interest in a thread that promises to talk about Scotch, it is a little confusing to talk about ersatz.

    Scotch is more than just barley liquor. It is the culture and the Tradition and the aging and the peat.

    Sparkling wine is not Champagne unless it comes from the Champagne region of France. Tequila is not tequila unless it is 100% blue agave and comes from the state of Jalisco--Mescal is not tequila...no matter how easy or attractive it is to blur the distinction. Irish single malt is not Scotch.

    The assertion that Hibiki is "Scotch in spirit" is spurious, at best, IMO. Without barley as a staple food, sans the drying processes (often over peat fires), without the cultural importance of the whisky in the history of people, where's the "spirit?" But if you want to see it that way...suit yourself.

    Next we'll be asserting that the distinction between "whisky" and "whiskey" is nit-picking.

    I'm not advocating a whole new thread...although as I said it's not that hard to start a thread here. I'm just looking to make sure that the distinctions...and the Traditions and the uniqueness...of real Scotch are recognized and foremost in our minds.

    --
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
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  9. b1os

    b1os Senior member

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  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    It has been proven that the perception of deja-vu is a neurological aberration.

    So appropriate....
     
  11. b1os

    b1os Senior member

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    FWIW, while we're at the topic of distinctions in law, tequila can also come from parts of Guanajuato, Michoacán, Nayarit and Tamaulipas (Jalisco covers 2/3 of the municipalities). Moreover, not 100% but 51% of blue agave (sugar) is sufficient.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    So what? I thought we were talking about Scotch not Tequila. I don't claim to know all that much about Tequila...I'll defer to your Wikipedia citation...I got my information from the proprietor of a high end Tequilaria in Cancun (or Playa, I can't remember which). That's what I was told when I asked...one state, 100% blue agave.

    But it doesn't make any difference whether it's one state or two or three...or ten. The analogy holds. If you're a Japanese or Argentinian or Texas based distiller and you label your liquor Tequila the Mexican government will sue your ass.

    Beyond that, my point holds. Anything else is "lowest-common-denominator" thinking. It minimizes the very things--the character--that make Tequila or Scotch or Saki or Champagne unique.

    And, ultimately when you minimize/ trivialize the differences and the distinctions between, for instance, Japanese whiskey and Scotch whisky, you trivialize both.

    And then nothing rises to the level of distinction.

    In passing it's worth noting that at one point in time someone on this board decided that it wasn't enough to discuss grain based liquors in a generic context. Thus the threads about Rye, Bourbon and Scotch.

    PS...I can access Wikipedia too:

    The NOM (Norma Oficial Mexicana) applies to all processes and activities related to the supply of agave, production, bottling, marketing, information and business practices linked to the distilled alcoholic beverage known as Tequila. Tequila must be produced using Agave of the species Tequilana Weber Blue variety, grown in the federal states and municipalities indicated in the Declaration.

    (And yes, some mixtos can uses alcohol from other sources--grain alcohol...everclear, IOW, etc.--but as I understand it, if agave is used it must be blue agave)

    Don Cenobio Sauza, founder of Sauza Tequila and Municipal President of the Village of Tequila from 1884–1885, was the first to export tequila to the United States,[7] and shortened the name from "Tequila Extract" to just "Tequila" for the American markets[citation needed]. Don Cenobio's grandson Don Francisco Javier gained international attention for insisting that "there cannot be tequila where there are no agaves!" His efforts led to the practice that real tequila can come only from the State of Jalisco.

    --
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  13. ama

    ama Senior member

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    Puh-lease.

    Nearly every major whisky magazine, blog, retailer and connoisseur has long accepted that world whiskeys, especially Japanese scotch - style ones, can and should be discussed in the same breath as the liquids coming from the vaunted Glens of Scotland. Your shtick is tired. We all get it, Japanese whiskey isn't technically "scotch," blends aren't technically "scotch," the first edition of Spice Tree isn't technically "scotch," etc., but for our sakes move into the 21st century and join the rest of the whisk(e)y drinking world in welcoming these fine tipples. No one needs a wrap on the knuckles from you when they want to talk about their favorite Yamazaki or Yoichi in here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
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  14. djblisk

    djblisk Senior member

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    +1
     
  15. embowafa

    embowafa Senior member

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    Nail on the head.

    I get his point and appreciate the information for information's sake, but when you start going all Soup Nazi up in the thread it just comes across as a bit...

    [​IMG]

    This is a thread with grown men talking about booze...I'd prefer it be as light hearted and welcoming as the subject matter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
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  16. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

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    +1. Said much better than I could have.
     
  17. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Yada yada yada. You're the head jedi, man, but be careful of that group-think japery. I think this is the second time in all the time I've been posting to this thread that I've raised the issue of what Scotch is or isn't. That's my opinion. I prefer my opinions to be like my whisky--singular and well thought out. Not a blend of popular ideas and second hand supposition. How about you?

    The Japanese whiskies may be wonderful, I don't know...I haven't tried them (I don't pretend to be an expert on all things...not even all things Scotch). But neither have I panned or badmouthed them. Bottom line is that they are what they are and not what you wish they were.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  18. jet

    jet Senior member

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    it's the law lulz
     
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  19. I<3Bacon

    I<3Bacon Senior member

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    I've had every Japanese whisky that gets imported into the U.S. legally. Several that aren't. Been to the "best Japanese whisky bars" in Japan and tried a mess of different single barrel offerings and new-make spirits. My opinion? Not for me. So few drams I actually enjoyed and I find Japanese whisky generally lacks the inexplicable magic SMS has. In the U.S., for the money, there are so many better SMS options that can be had for less than the usual Yamazaki/Hibiki bottles.

    Do I think there are people who drop the coin on this stuff just because it's Japanese? Absolutely. And I want to tell these people that Japanese whisky was found on the idea of basically replicating Scotch whisky domestically... almost to the point of neurosis. But I also believe there are true enthusiasts... but these people don't buy U.S. market Japanese whisky.

    As far as nomenclature and this thread is concerned, I'd rather be having this discussion than responseless posts of people having their first dram of Macallan 12yr, coming in here, and posting "hey I just had my first scotch and i like it!".

    How's that for group-think?
     
    2 people like this.
  20. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I'm kind of with you on all of it. Not sure what you mean about "dropping the coin"...spending the coin or dissing the product? I don't have a thing against Japanese whiskies per se, they're just not Scotch regardless of what they're trying to copy.

    Now if we had a thread about Single Malts...we could include Japanese malts, Irish malts and Scotch malt. I hear there's even some Welsh and English single malts. But then what about blends? No one can be all things to all people although some people seem determined to try.

    And BTW, just to set the record clear...I don't believe I've ever said that Blended Scotch is not Scotch...technically or otherwise. To quote one of my go-to experts...and I do believe he is a bona fide expert...:

    [And yes, it's kind of cutesy to try to do a Scots dialog in text but if you LISTEN (those who have the capability), it's also kind of charming.]

    What I have said, however is that scrambling together a bunch or probably second tier whiskies (even if they come from first tier distilleries, you know they're not going to lend their best stuff to a blend) and then adulterating even that suspect quality with what amounts to Everclear, does not do justice to the malt or the expectation.

    Beyond that, I don't understand why it is so hard to give these people their due. They feel strongly about their claim to the name (whether it be Champagne or Tequila or Scotch) and they feel strongly about their contribution to the joy of being human.

    To make it small or inconsequential is just politics--the art of compromise and homogenization.

    --
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013

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