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Antonio Meccariello Shoes

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by goodlensboy, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. dlind

    dlind Senior member

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    +1
     
  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Not commenting on the work of any specific maker but all these supposedly "minor' imperfections have to be looked at with some disfavour. None of them are necessary. Or Traditional. Or part of the handmade mystique. In fact, the standards of quality and finishing and even perfection that some are expecting from manufactured work, were and are, set/established by bespoke makers and bespoke Traditions.

    Even when a manufacturer debases a standard...such as GY trying to emulate, and hyping itself as "good as," hand welted and/or substituting inferior materials for quality leathers...the manufacturer is still emulating the Traditional standards. Such work is pretending to be something it isn't. And it is only because the average consumer can't see under the outsole for instance, or doesn't know how to judge the quality of leather (not uncommonly can't even tell the difference between leather and leatherboard) that such pretense finds acceptance.

    Bespoke makers are human and they make mistakes. But don't think those mistakes are just part of the charm of handmade. They're not. And at some level they're no more acceptable than if they were on RTW.

    Bespoke makers will probably never be able to achieve the kind of uniformity you see in "ticky-tacky" but mistakes are mistakes no matter who and how.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  3. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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    From an economics points of view, however, many minor cosmetic mistakes may not be worth fixing.

    DW, would the errors on the previous page have any effect on the shoes themselves other than being cosmetic? Just for my own curiosity.
     
  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I agree with you 100%. Maybe not worth sending back even if they could be fixed.

    But surely worth noting and worth mentioning if you intend to order again. And absolutely not to be considered part of the "charm of handmade."

    It may be the photo but the second to last photo seems show some damage to the upper above the heel seat.

    And really, most if not all cosmetic defects could be prevented with just a little more care. Certainly most makers would (or ought to) welcome such feedback.

    I remember a few years ago when I posted an early pair of chukkas that I had made and someone (might have been Vox) pointed out that there were a series of marks--innocuous, cosmetic only, indentations--on the upper, left over from where I had pricked up the welt. I hadn't seen them, to be honest, but the camera caught them. It was a wake-up call for me and as a result I studied on how to prevent such marks. That led me to a system that masks off the whole shoe prior to pricking up and finishing. My whole shoe is better because of that lesson.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  5. chobochobo

    chobochobo Senior member Moderator

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    Do you mean the Bestetti shoe?
     
  6. AlexG33

    AlexG33 Senior member

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    +1[​IMG]
     
  7. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Post 490 of this thread. (I try to focus on the work and what I am seeing and avoid associating it with any specific maker. So yes, it may have been)
     
  8. Gianni Cerutti

    Gianni Cerutti Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    These photos are of my heels Bestetti 2012. What do you think? To be a MTO would say they are perfect. And I can not wait to show you the heels of my Gladietor.
     
  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    That's nice clean work. And not "muddied up" by extra ornamentation that diverts the eye from the workmanship and makes the heel look too busy.
     
  10. Gianni Cerutti

    Gianni Cerutti Senior member

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    Sure. You're right. This is simply the work of Bestetti 2 years ago. And he thinks that in two years has improved a lot. In fact, I'll show you my details of my bespoke Gladietor me getting ready. It certainly is not the work that some would have you believe.
     
  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I wouldn't expect anything less. but as I said in another post, whenever a maker decides to increase production, he has to cut costs and, usually, hire on extra hands. At which point he loses control of the quality.

    I don't know Bestetti's situation but others have mentioned that he is getting more and more into RTW...I wouldn't be surprised if his own personal work is exemplary but some of the workmanship coming from employees might not be so good.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  12. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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    I have a strong feeling that over time as a maker begins to resolve through his issues he tackles them one at a time.

    This, being a very minor one, probably comes near the end of the list of things. Having just launched Aurum, it will be interesting to see the progress over time. I can say even at the standard quality I have seen an improvement in many elements of my second pair.

    I know as well even from my own personal work (in the business world) the stages were creating something good, learning what you don't yet know, consistent improvement, very concept heavy but much better work and finally well executed simplicity.

    The standard line was clearly the first stage, Aurum clearly is the fourth stage. Over time we may see the tiniest of imperfections ironed out.
    For instance in mine there is a slight mispelling of my name inside the shoe.


    DW, do you think this is always true? If not how much more often do you think quality is decrease by doing this? If one person handles only the finishing, may that person not be better than an individual maker?

    For instance if I only have to keep track of five different processes in the finishing, I could probably ensure much greater consistency than I could when I have a full shoes worth of work being required.
    I would think the rolling on the heel (not sure the correct name) would be exactly the kind of thing a second person could do just as well if not better than a single maker.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  13. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    First, you've struck right to the heart of the issue--the maker. When a person starts a business or esp. pursues some of the more arcane fields of endeavors, he needs to have a passion. that's what motivates, esp. if the learning curve is steep. As decent and hard working, as diligent as they may be, no one who does not share that passion will ever be as concerned or as "caring" as he will be.

    Second...cuts in the upper along the heel seat are not minor issues. And while the wobbly wheeling below the heel seat may be minor it is almost the definition of not caring.The heelseat has to be trimmed and leveled for the wheeling to be level and straight. this just takes time and the native interest to see when it is not.




    See above, but I think this is always true over time. In fact, I can't think of an exception. Again, it comes down to passion. And when you break down the process into small jobs and/or stations you may...if fortune smiles on you...find someone both dedicated enough and indifferent enough to not care about the boredom of doing that job over and over again. Someone who is OK with having no real personal investment in making the entire shoe or in becoming an actual shoemaker--and skilled in all aspects of the work. But I think it would be unusual. Anyone who can do such repetitive work isn't really interested in shoemaking. And anyone who is interested in being a shoemaker would not be happy or feel like he was contributing, doing one job .

    Furthermore, take the issue of heel seat wheeling...trimming and leveling the heel seat would, in many factory situations, be one job, and finishing...including heel seat wheeling...would be another. So, the upshot is that the finisher has to rely on the workmanship of the bottom man--the guy trimming and leveling the heel seat--to do his job properly. If the bottom man doesn't trim and level the outsole or put the heel seat in properly, the heel seat wheel will never track level.

    Sam Luchesse once said that the most important job in a boot (shoe) shop was the person who sewed the pieces together. And then he recanted and said "No, it was the guy who cut out the pieces," because if the clicker didn't do his job properly the sewing couldn't be done properly. Recanting yet again, it was the person who laid out the patterns because if the patterns weren't right the clicking wouldn't be right.

    You get the picture. Everybody has to care like the shoes were their own. And in the real world, the only way that happens is if every job is handled by the same guy--the guy with the passion, interest and dedication to excellence...the guy who personally has to be responsible.

    Whoever made those shoes with the cut uppers didn't care, or the cuts would not have occurred. Whoever made those shoes with the wobbly heel seat wheeling didn't have to answer for the results..
     
    2 people like this.
  14. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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    Very interesting, thanks. Your knowledge of shoe making really provides perspective.

    Although, what about the Japanese? If I have ever seen anyone take a pride in doing just a few jobs, no matter how trivial, absolutely perfectly, it is them. Perhaps just a bias on my part?
     
  15. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    riccardo makes the
    shoes himself
    if it is novecento
    or bespoke
     
  16. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    indeed
    since aurum was
    just launched
    it may have some
    minor cosmetic
    refinements needed
    such as adjustments
    to the tool
    to smoothen
    the top of the
    heel

    eg;
    here is a shoe
    posted by member
    alexg33 awhile ago
    from his standard line

    [​IMG]
     
  17. MSchapiro

    MSchapiro Senior member

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    Perhaps one of the nice things of being American is that outside of this forum, no one there will ever notice :).
     
  18. SoGent

    SoGent Senior member

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    educate me please . . . . I see nothing wrong or incorrect with this
     
  19. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    ^
    correct
    teh point was
    that pix was of
    the standard line
    where all kinks
    were worked out
    aurum is new
    so may have
    some little finishing
    errors
     
  20. SoGent

    SoGent Senior member

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    ah see. as long as he's taken to 'fine tune' the lasts, I would think his detail to the rest of the shoe would follow very close behind.
     

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