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Antonio Meccariello Shoes

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by goodlensboy, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. gmehra

    gmehra Well-Known Member

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    @ThunderMarch when someone makes a statement like maker X has better quality leather than maker Y - I don't think he or she is saying that every single pair of shoes ever made in the history of maker X has better leather than every single of pair of shoes ever made in the history or maker Y. Its just a general statement. I can see that you don't really like to make these types of general statements and prefer to delve into things very deeply which I respect. however I personally do not and don't think many on this forum do either. its still fun for many of us to have a discussion in general terms without writing a novel about their views/opinions

    @saurabh handwelting is certainly not the only factor that people consider but it is seen by some as an added bonus. no I have not had any complaints of any shoes falling apart including blake stitched footwear from Enzo Bonafe. Ranking quality of uppers of the 4 brands you mentioned I would say 1. EG/GG (tie) 2. Vass 3. EB

    Now just for fun and in general terms (without a huge explanation) heres my unbiased view on all the factors that have been discussed when ranking EG/Vass/AM. Note that AM is not included in all rankings due to him offering so many different lines of construction/quality

    Leather Quality

    1. EG
    2. Vass

    Leather Selection

    1. AM
    2. EG
    3. Vass

    Construction

    1. Vass
    2. EG

    Customer Service for English Speaking World

    1. EG
    2. Vass
    3. AM

    Fit for people with low/regular instep

    1. EG
    2. Vass
    3. AM

    Fit for people with high instep

    1. AM
    2. Vass
    3. EG

    Bang For Buck

    1. Vass/AM (Tie)
    2. EG

    Finishing / Bottom Work

    1. AM
    2. EG
    3. Vass

    Brand Value / Prestige

    1. EG
    2. AM/Vass (Tie)

    Flexibility for MTO

    1. AM
    2. Vass
    3. EG
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018 at 11:59 PM


  2. dalevy

    dalevy Distinguished Member

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    Haha nice try trying to drag me into this. I like them both, but I think you guys are still answering different questions. Stylistically, I can appreciate both AM and EG, just like one can appreciate an English suit and an Italian suit. One is stiffer, less curvy, etc., but no less valid. AM's waist shaping and welting is...well, sex in shoe form. I can also appreciate the burnishing/polishing differences. EG is flatter, the burnishing just so on the toe and heel (although it appears that AM can do a more English style based on a couple of his IG pics, maybe I was just not explaining it right). I like the waxy feel and the softness of Utah grain but I have no clue if it comes from the best part of the hide or not. If AM could source it, I would use it for sure, but I don't think he can. I could go on, but all of this is subjective. Fit wise, whatever, that's subjective, but I like that AM will make me a shoe on my personal last in whatever design I want and in whatever color I want (mostly, anyways, I cannot really get the nuances of color across all that well in an e-mail), and it'll cost me less than EG (this is probably why I will never buy EG full price or even on sale again). As for the harder quantitative measures of "quality," or "best," I'm honestly not the right person to answer this. I understand the differences between handwelting and GYW. It's secondary to subjective measures like fit and maybe other things like color/design and in particular the proportions of various shoes/burnishing, etc. If I could get a shoe made on my personal last using GYW or Argentum welt for less money I probably would. I'm a middle of the road kind of guy so I'd probably pay a little more for Argentum because I can also appreciate craftsmanship/ingenuity but am not made of money. But that's just me. I also can't tell the difference between the best cut and the third best cut or the difference between a hide reserved for Hermes and one that is left over, but I haven't seen any of that side by side. I can tell the difference between AM/GG/EG on the one hand and Carmina on the other because that's what I have. But I'm not going to be able to spend the money on an Aurum shoe (okay, maybe one in my lifetime) to find out.

     


  3. nkapped

    nkapped Active Member

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    I've been reading today's posts with great interest. It just shows, really, what one regards as a "good" pair of shoes. Clearly, some prefer construction above all else whereas aesthetics, brand value, prestige etc. may be far more valuable to others. I think there is no definitive answer to this. The differing viewpoints are exactly what makes forums like this so enlightening to us all.

    For the record, I do not think this was ever about bashing EG or advocating AM as the ultimate paragon of excellence - neither are perfect. If I'm not mistaken, it evolved from a simple query about the different split toe models in the market. I've now picked up a lot of information and it will certainly inform my future purchases.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018 at 12:03 AM


  4. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Distinguished Member

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    Well then, I apologise if any sensitivities were offended.

    Of course, there are numerous points of view here. And as in any public forum, most people won't see eye to eye.

    Recently I re-watched Japan's win over South Africa during their opening match in the RWC 2015. Was a most remarkable match which showed how heart, courage and discipline turned victorious against an old traditional rugby powerhouse (that was also playing well, btw). It was a most inspiring match.

    Also, I wonder if Dennis Kimetto's 2:02:57 will fall this year.
     


  5. Decreased

    Decreased Well-Known Member

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    As a neutral who owns one each AM, CJ, Carmina, AS, trickers, and a couple of "cheaper" shoes, Cheaney, barker and Carlos santos I have to say that my thunder March is doing his best to bring this argument to objective, measurable facts. Not vague things like "value" and "service". It may not be a necessary discussion, but no one has used logic to counter logic.

    I hope to have the money to purchase some dovers and Galways someday, because they are good looking, more versatile options, than most of what I currently own. Nonetheless, they will be at best a lightly better version than the shoes I paid 50% less for (AS are imo particularly good value). They will also cost me significantly more than the best shoes I own, my AMs, which despite being machine stitched display the hallmarks of a quality artisanal product. These include the tightest waist and most impressive sole of any machine stitched shoe I have heard of or seen. The construction without gemming is also important because it means that even if the product is only 1% better than GYW, it can be made at a more attractive price than a HW option. I believe this is also objective, based on the opinion of cobblers (face to face) and unrelated shoemakers (online).

    No one can argue subjective desirability, but bringing that as the main point in a discussion based on objective measures of quality is ridiculous. Of course no one can convince anyone, because they are unrelated conversations.

    I hope I haven't offended anyone, I appreciate the knowledge and experience of those who have contributed.
     


  6. Wingtip77

    Wingtip77 Well-Known Member

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    We all have different opinions, and different ways of measuring quality. However, just because an item is handmade or handwelted, or whatever, does not make it of a higher quality. I could attempt to make a pair of shoes by hand, but they wouldn't be of any quality. I could handwelt them, given the right tools, but they would be terrible. Even skilled makers do not get everything right 100% of the time.

    Anyway, I'm 110% sure that not even Mr Meccariello would be of the opinion that his shoes are 'better' than EG or Vass. He has taken ideas from EG and put his own slant on them - imitiation is the best form of flattery. The Vass Kaan uppers are "handclicked & handstitched by skilled craftsman in England, Northampton". By whom?

    It's all subjective, but the technical aspect is only one part of defining whether something is quality or not.
     


  7. ThunderMarch

    ThunderMarch Distinguished Member

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    Well, this "discussion" is already drawn out far longer than it's supposed to have been.

    But sure, let's humor each other.

    Of course, handwelting does not guarantee perfection.

    Correspondingly, does gluing fabric on an insole guarantee perfection? Does chain stitching instead of lock stitching guarantee perfection? Does glue itself, guarantee perfection? Does a machine never fail? Does a machine, guarantee perfection?

    What is the basis of comparison? Which comes closer to GOLD standard? We are not comparing sloppy A vs pristine execution B. We are comparing techniques done to the best of their standards within reasonable limits.

    Of course, I am very well aware that construction alone is not the ONLY determinant of quality. I challenge anyone to quote me saying otherwise.

    I am honestly, sincerely, still waiting, for someone, anyone, to provide empirical, irrefutable, non-vague, specific, examples of "better quality" in favor of EG. Apart from my earlier explanations / rationalisations of leather quality / cost, I've really yet to hear anything.
     


  8. Article 26

    Article 26 Senior Member

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    Seriously, this is at laughing levels.
    Good shoes - the end.
     


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