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Antitrust Lawsuit Filed against eBay over PayPal, Payments Policies

fredrik80

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The problem with paypal is not the fees but the complete lack of seller protection if you are an international seller.
Accepting paypal as an international seller is practically saying "steal from me" , if someone files a chargeback or buyer complaint you are out of your money every time, no exceptions

I had a buyer file a chargeback on me THREE MONTHS after he received the item, and claimed to his creditcard company he never received the item. I had sent it trackable courier with delivery signature (viewable online), paypal didnt care and put me -$699 asap. I'm never going to pay paypal that money and they've sent it to some lowlife collection agency called NCO that have sent me a card saying "Mr Brown is calling on Monday, be sure to answer"
 

Tarmac

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Originally Posted by j
The reason I posted this is that I can't see how ebay's shutting down of auctions that even mention another payment method could be considered anything but anti-competitive behavior, which violates the spirit, if not the actual letter, of the Anti-trust acts we have in this country. Personally, I think ebay is setting themselves up for a major mutiny and crash as soon as a smart competitor comes along.

Yes, all it takes is a good competitor. but there is none.
 

knittieguy

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Originally Posted by HalfCanvas

While I don't know whether this is a winning case, it certainly isn't meritless. It will almost certainly settle, but society would be much better off having cases like this go to trial.


Actually, antitrust cases are much less likely to settle than other forms, since it is extremely hard to win one.
 

whacked

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Originally Posted by fredrik80
The problem with paypal is not the fees but the complete lack of seller protection if you are an international seller.
Accepting paypal as an international seller is practically saying "steal from me" , if someone files a chargeback or buyer complaint you are out of your money every time, no exceptions

I had a buyer file a chargeback on me THREE MONTHS after he received the item, and claimed to his creditcard company he never received the item. I had sent it trackable courier with delivery signature (viewable online), paypal didnt care and put me -$699 asap. I'm never going to pay paypal that money and they've sent it to some lowlife collection agency called NCO that have sent me a card saying "Mr Brown is calling on Monday, be sure to answer"


smile.gif
Very sorry to hear about your situation. I didn't know international sellers can have that much trouble with the service. I have heard horror stories about fraudulent buyers swindling people out of their money with PayPal's helping hands but nothing to that extreme.

PayPal fees I can live with, but not so much about the risk of losing disputes. Guess I'll need to review my auctions' payment policies.
 

RJman

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I smell settlement. Everyone get ready for a check for $3.80 each.
 

Tarmac

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Originally Posted by RJman
I smell settlement. Everyone get ready for a check for $3.80 each.

haha yeah. well $3.80 in your paypal account. If you need a check there is a $2.50 check fee.
 

lawyerdad

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Originally Posted by knittieguy
Actually, antitrust cases are much less likely to settle than other forms, since it is extremely hard to win one.

I'm not primarily an antitrust lawyer, but I don't think this is correct. Cases that are relatively likely to win are, all things being equal, more likely to settle. When cases are very difficult for a plaintiff to win, there is less incentive for the defendant to settle and less reason for the plaintiffs to pursue them aggressively. But such generalizations are only marginally helpful, because every case has its own characteristics.
 

Neo1824

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The same thing happened to me on a international sale.

Sold to a ebay user in good standing (no negative feedback), Paypal account holder (verified, confirmed, blah blah) and than about 2 weeks after I shipped the stuff out...bam...fraudulent card use. Someone highjacked this person's ebay and Paypal account and I'm - $1k immediately.

Than Paypal trots out this tiny statement buried in the small print about seller protection for international sales that I missed and I'm screwed.
 

odoreater

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Originally Posted by RJman
I smell settlement. Everyone get ready for a check for $3.80 each.

Or a coupon for Sizzler.
 

Artisan Fan

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The reason I posted this is that I can't see how ebay's shutting down of auctions that even mention another payment method could be considered anything but anti-competitive behavior, which violates the spirit, if not the actual letter, of the Anti-trust acts we have in this country.
J,

I'm not sure I agree on this one. ebay should be able to have some control of its marketplaces and with paypal it knows it can control the payment process quality even if there are issues. Consumers are also free to use other marketplaces like Craig's List and others.
 

Sartorian

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Originally Posted by Artisan Fan
J, I'm not sure I agree on this one. ebay should be able to have some control of its marketplaces and with paypal it knows it can control the payment process quality even if there are issues. Consumers are also free to use other marketplaces like Craig's List and others.
1. That argument runs up against the question of whether Craig'slist et. al. represent equivalent or substitutable marketplaces. I'd say no, especially if you consider the regionalization of CL, the fact it's not an auction site, the lack of taxation, and the fact its buying/selling segments only represent a tiny proportion of its traffic: it's not really even a buying/selling site, at least not completely. Certainly, in terms of consumers and vendors, you could make an argument either way, but if you're looking to do what ebay is designed to do, get you the best price for an item, then CL is not equivalent. 2. I'm not sure what you mean by 'ebay should be able to have some control of its marketplaces.' You mean it should have control over its website? Sure. Control over pricing? Well, not if it's an auction house--that's just contradictory of its purpose. Control of methods of payment? Perhaps. EVERY online vendor controls methods of payments. The problem here is that ebay is controlling the method of payments between the vendor and the buyer, and turns a decent profit from doing so. Anti-competitive? Maybe. Seen from the point of view of Paypal using ebay, the practice is akin to Microsoft using Windows to exclude other sellers and encourage use of IExplorer--was this ever finally settled? But ebay can always argue that since it's the parent company, it should be free to regulate its business from the top down. The traditional bricks-and-mortar definitions probably put ebay out on top, but with internet businesses, the analogies can often be inverted, vivisected and totally deconstructed. 3. As far as settlement goes, as the recipient of several class-action awards, I'm going to bet less than $2 or an alternative such as a free paypal transaction under $100. My Verizon settlement got me a discounted rate on text messaging for up to 6 months. Are you kidding? We won, so now we've won the right to buy more from the losers?!
 

lawyerdad

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Originally Posted by Sartorian
3. As far as settlement goes, as the recipient of several class-action awards, I'm going to bet less than $2 or an alternative such as a free paypal transaction under $100. My Verizon settlement got me a discounted rate on text messaging for up to 6 months. Are you kidding? We won, so now we've won the right to buy more from the losers?!

You're missing the point. The plaintiffs' lawyers -- that is, "your" lawyers -- undoubtedly made beaucoup bucks. Kinda gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling that makes it all worthwhile, no?
 

Sartorian

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Originally Posted by lawyerdad
You're missing the point. The plaintiffs' lawyers -- that is, "your" lawyers -- undoubtedly made beaucoup bucks. Kinda gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling that makes it all worthwhile, no?
Actually, I'm in law school, so I got the point, sensei: I threw out the settlement note and started reviewing my old Civil Procedure notes
smile.gif
.
 

SoCal2NYC

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All these international horror stories have me scared.

I sold 2 shirts ($70) to a guy in South Korea and he paid through PayPal. I'm going to send with a tracking number/delivery confirmation.
 

HalfCanvas

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Originally Posted by knittieguy
Actually, antitrust cases are much less likely to settle than other forms, since it is extremely hard to win one.

Hard to win = true
Extremely cost for defendant to comply with discovery = equally true

The result is that a nuissance value settlement is lucrative enough for most plaintiff attorneys.

My guess is that the plaintiff did just enough on the complaint to make it by
12(b)(6).
 

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