Another Oxxford MTM Question

[The_Foxx]

Just to throw in my two cents. I might wear my MTM navy oxxford suit again to church on Sunday. I would put my MTM oxxford suit against any custom suit any day of the week-- this suit kicks ass! I'll try to snap some photos if i do.

I am very opinionated about bespoke tailors. There are only about 10 in the world that I would even consider using-- most of the stuff I see on the forums don't look that good to me. Shoddy shoulders, proportions are off, jackets make the wearers look like a pear, etc. whenever i see those photos (including one by the tailor Nicholosi, supposedly a great custom tailor-- shoulders were lumpy, over-roped, and horrible in my opinion) I think "should have bought an Oxxford, Brioni, or MTM from one of these or other reputable brands!!"

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by The_Foxx

Just to throw in my two cents. I might wear my MTM navy oxxford suit again to church on Sunday. I would put my MTM oxxford suit against any custom suit any day of the week-- this suit kicks ass! I'll try to snap some photos if i do. I am very opinionated about bespoke tailors. There are only about 10 in the world that I would even consider using-- most of the stuff I see on the forums don't look that good to me. Shoddy shoulders, proportions are off, jackets make the wearers look like a pear, etc. whenever i see those photos (including one by the tailor Nicholosi, supposedly a great custom tailor-- shoulders were lumpy, over-roped, and horrible in my opinion) I think "should have bought an Oxxford, Brioni, or MTM from one of these or other reputable brands!!"
In general I agree with you, although good custom, IMO, is still a good bit better than Brioni, Kiton, Oxxford.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by The_Foxx

I am very opinionated about bespoke tailors. There are only about 10 in the world that I would even consider using-- most of the stuff I see on the forums don't look that good to me.

You only need one

 

[VKT]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

If you call ahead to make an appointment, you should be able to have a fitting with Rocco. I've been able to do this multiple times. However, Rocco's English can be difficult, if not impossible, to understand. I'm never sure if he's understood a request or comment.

I wouldn't be too discouraged about Oxxford. In my opinion, if you are risk averse, Oxxford is not a bad choice at all: bad bespoke can be much worse. The problem is that the upside is also limited. You'll likely get a more-than-decent fit, but it won't be spectacular, and the styling tend to come out a bit boring.

I had my jackets made through their 'bespoke' option, which is basically MTM with basted fittings at their Manhattan boutique. They did very high armholes, lots of waist suppression, no shoulder padding, ets., all per my request--but still the end result is somewhat bland. Ultimately, you're still modifying a pre-set cut that itself is often an interpretation or amalgamation of various styles. The Mason is nice, but it's basically a watered down attempt at something more 'Neapolitan'. The Crest is basically a Brioni copy--you can see an example in my blog posts.

But then, Oxxford has never been about flash. They stray from doing anything extreme or the slightest bit quirky. For a solid standby suit or jacket, you can't go wrong--though if you are willing to stomach more risk or more cost, you can get something arguably significantly more unique.

I contacted the Oxxford person setting up my visit. They can't do a fitting because my garment has already been completed and shipped out, which means that they are delivering three weeks ahead of schedule! It should be in by tomorrow or Monday, so we shall see how it turned out!

 

[svtrader]

I'm interested in Oxxford MTM and would appreciate some pics.

 

[aportnoy]

I've had excellent succes with the two Oxxofrd MTM suits that I"ve gotten. Both are excellent fits but neither approaches the fit and incredible detailing of the bespoke Shattuck suit that I just received. That doesn't make Oxxford bad, just not the same as an well executed bespoke suit.

I do agree that if I had to choose between mid or lower level bespoke or Oxxofrd (or Kiton, Brioni, etc.) MTM, I would go for the MTM.

 

[ranchsooner]

Originally Posted by Tomasso

The store can arraigned for a fitting at the workrooms. If fact, one can be measured and fitted at the workrooms (the best way to experience Oxxford MTM)as long as the transaction in made through an Oxxford retailer.


I have an appointment with Rocco Monday morning. I have been looking forward to visiting the factory for some time. I am just hoping I find a fabric I like

 

[a tailor]

you could forego the next two golden fleece and get an oxxford.

 

[rssmsvc]

Originally Posted by VKT

Mafoofan, many thanks for the information. I think I will contact them and ask to do a fitting. Rocco actually took all my measurements at the trunk show, so it would be great if I could get a fitting with him in Chicago. Thanks again.

If you are in Chicago, I would also take see if you can meet with Mr. Despos. I like Oxxford, adore Isaia , love Belvest, and adore Kiton, but if I had to do it again I would of just gone straight to him and get exactly what I want.

 

[brescd01]

Originally Posted by Manton

...spending $3,000 on a risky suit strikes me as dubious. If I were to spend that much, I would commit the extra $1,000 or so and go bespoke...

Funny how forumites almost fascistically describe bespoke costs with Manhattan, Paris, or Savile Row prices, despite lots of tailors with good reputations with lower prices. Summit in Northern New Jersey, Centofanti in Philadelphia...is Rizzo in Boston that expensive? I am not criticizing the excellence of the over-promoted and over-examined tailors that get a lot of verbiage on the fora, but I think one does a disservice to forum members to constantly exaggerate its costs. And not every customer of the famous Manhattan tailors feels he got his money's worth, that's for sure!

 

[lefty]

Originally Posted by brescd01

... Summit in Northern New Jersey, ...

Who's in Summit?

lefty

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by brescd01

Funny how forumites almost fascistically describe bespoke costs with Manhattan, Paris, or Savile Row prices, despite lots of tailors with good reputations with lower prices. Summit in Northern New Jersey, Centofanti in Philadelphia...is Rizzo in Boston that expensive? I am not criticizing the excellence of the over-promoted and over-examined tailors that get a lot of verbiage on the fora, but I think one does a disservice to forum members to constantly exaggerate its costs. And not every customer of the famous Manhattan tailors feels he got his money's worth, that's for sure!

If people have access to bespoke for less than $4,000, good for them. Most people don't. Most cities don't have good tailors any more. The ones that do charge a lot of money, for the most part. The only other alternative for most guys is a travelling English tailor, and with the dollar in the tank, even the cheap ones are getting close to $4K, if they haven't already passed that mark.

 

[Sator]

I must say I consider myself extremely lucky that Sydney has some excellent bespoke tailors. Most of them are Italian immigrants but we also have one third generation tailor who is Savile Row trained. With the exception of the latter tailor I can get excellent bespoke for well under $4000 USD.

I just fetched a RTW Brioni (an old one I was having tweaked a bit) from one of these Italian tailors and he told me the construction of the Brioni was extremely disappointing. When I told him the normal full retail price of the suit he was appalled. He found the workmanship under the bonnet to be far too shoddy to command anything near that price.

 

[Mark Seitelman]

I.

As to the initial inquiry as to whether Oxxford MTM is better than Brooks Golden Fleece (Greenfield) MTM?

The answer is yes, Oxxford is superior in fit and workmanship, and the higher price reflects this. The Brooks CMT price at the wholesale level is about 60% of the Oxxford price.

I have had both Oxxford and Brooks.

I would recommend that you try an Oxxford MTM at its store. Buy an end bolt for about $2,400. (It's like buying a $3,000+ suit.) The only way to see and feel the difference is to get one.

The workmanship and fit is superior to Brooks. There is more individualization on the pattern; Brooks is almost like a stock special. In essence, Oxxford makes a pattern for the customer; Brooks does not.


II.

Another issue has been discussed, i.e., whether it is better to buy bespoke than MTM?

I have also had bespoke as well as Oxxford MTM.

Bespoke is excellent and very individualistic, but I feel that Oxxford MTM is about as good and is a much better value. An Oxxford CMT or end bolt is about $2,400; a London bespoke is now $4,000+ due to the bad exchange rate. The celebrated NYC guys are priced about the same.

You have to determine what is your "Rubicon" in price. Everyone has their outter limit. I know of a billionaire who sticks with Brooks because he won't spend more than the Brooks MTM price point (approx. $2,000 for a suit). In other words, spend at a comfortable level, and be happy!

Also, there's good bespoke and not so good bespoke. I have had both good and bad from some celebrated firms. I know a few guys who have been very unhappy with their results from celebrated tailors.

Sometimes, excellent RTW (if it fits) is better than poorly fitted and made bespoke. I have a couple of Greenfield pieces from Peter Elliot which are as good as anything that I have ever had. However, that's a debate for another thread.

In sum, an excellent MTM, such as Oxxford, is better than a so-so bespoke.