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Ancient Madder Ties

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Roger, Apr 9, 2007.

  1. Roger

    Roger Senior member

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    Lately, I've become interested in these ties, particularly with respect to their finish and the use of traditional vegetable dyes (e.g., indigo). I haven't purchased one yet and had a few questions that I'm sure many of you could answer:

    1. Are these ties generally paisley prints?

    2. Are the ties labeled as ancient madder all actually made the traditional way (with madder dyes), or has that label just come to mean a fairly roughly-finished paisley print?

    3. Where the heck can I find a good one? It seemed a while back (when I wasn't interested), I was running into them all the time. Now, when I am interested, I can't find many, and none with a color/pattern I really like.

    4. What do you see as the appropriate sort of dress with which to wear these ties? More casual jackets? Tweed or other more roughly-finished jackets?
     
  2. Will

    Will Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I like them with tweed and flannel glen checks.

    I've seen paisleys and neats, but none recently.

    If you find a source, please share. Production was supposed to continue after David Evans, but I haven't seen it
     
  3. Edward Appleby

    Edward Appleby Senior member

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    Not to vouch for either, but RLPL and Brooks both do ancient madder ties.
     
  4. aportnoy

    aportnoy Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    A Paul Stuart specialty. They have them every fall.[​IMG]
     
  5. demeis

    demeis Senior member

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    Just ordered some today from Talbott. Have about 3 styles coming, they are all offered in Paisley. Not sure if they are done traditionally, if i read this sooner i could have asked.
     
  6. coachvu

    coachvu Senior member

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    I've seen them regularly from Ben Silver, and they also show up on polo.com.
     
  7. Roger

    Roger Senior member

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    Demeis, I tried Hansen's Clothing, a big supplier of Robert Talbott ties, but came up empty. Where do you get your Talbott ties, and are ancient madders available now? Coachvu, I tried both Ben Silver and Polo.com and came up empty. They don't seem to have them at the moment. Edward Appleby, same result at Brooks. Andrew, you may have put your finger on it when you said that Paul Stuart have them every fall. They don't seem to have any now, but given that this tie style is more of a fall/winter accessory, maybe I'm looking at the wrong time of year.
     
  8. coachvu

    coachvu Senior member

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    Demeis, I tried Hansen's Clothing, a big supplier of Robert Talbott ties, but came up empty. Where do you get your Talbott ties, and are ancient madders available now? Coachvu, I tried both Ben Silver and Polo.com and came up empty. They don't seem to have them at the moment. Edward Appleby, same result at Brooks. Andrew, you may have put your finger on it when you said that Paul Stuart have them every fall. They don't seem to have any now, but given that this tie style is more of a fall/winter accessory, maybe I'm looking at the wrong time of year.

    Yes, they're probably considered out of season now. You never know when they may show up on clearance. Check Ben Silver's clearance site periodically. I know they've had one or two on there in the past.
     
  9. william

    william Senior member

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    RLPL ancient madder ties come up all the time on ebay.
     
  10. Edward Appleby

    Edward Appleby Senior member

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    They have them on Polo.com, Purple Label, Ties, no. 31-45
     
  11. Roger

    Roger Senior member

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    They have them on Polo.com, Purple Label, Ties, no. 31-45
    Right you are, Edward. Not the colors right now that I can use, but thanks for the tip.
     
  12. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I like them with tweed and flannel glen checks. I've seen paisleys and neats, but none recently. If you find a source, please share. Production was supposed to continue after David Evans, but I haven't seen it
    David Evans was purchased by Silk Industries (who also owns Vanners) and the phyiscal plant closed down. The archives, equipment and some staff was moved over to Adamley were we order our Macclesfield prints. So these days you can still order David Evans or Adamly archive prints which includes madders. Artificial madder dye has been used for many years (60+?) howeevr, you might find a few other natural dyes used such as indigo. Currently we have no plans to order any madders, but we are working on a long-term plan to use natural madder root and dye our own madder silks. I am not sure if we will grow the madder on our farm in Thailand or here in the US. In theory you can make a madder print with any pattern.
     
  13. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    David Evans was purchased by Silk Industries (who also owns Vanners) and the phyiscal plant closed down. The archives, equipment and some staff was moved over to Adamley were we order our Macclesfield prints.

    So these days you can still order David Evans or Adamly archive prints which includes madders.

    Artificial madder dye has been used for many years (60+?) howeevr, you might find a few other natural dyes used such as indigo.

    Currently we have no plans to order any madders, but we are working on a long-term plan to use natural madder root and dye our own madder silks. I am not sure if we will grow the madder on our farm in Thailand or here in the US.

    In theory you can make a madder print with any pattern.

    Try oak tree bark for your brilliant yellows. We use it here in the art school and it works wonderfully. With oak yellows, indigo blues, and madder reds you will have all the primaries. That plus burn just about anything for your (carbon) blacks and your studio is virtually complete. Any suggestions for non-artificial whites?
     
  14. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Try oak tree bark for your brilliant yellows. We use it here in the art school and it works wonderfully. With oak yellows, indigo blues, and madder reds you will have all the primaries. That plus burn just about anything for your (carbon) blacks and your studio is virtually complete. Any suggestions for non-artificial whites?
    Alex, Thank you for the suggestions. Your art school sounds very interesting. Do you have a website? I wonder what type of dyes they used at the Ajanta caves in India which are so famous for their colors after all these years.
     
  15. Film Noir Buff

    Film Noir Buff Senior member

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    I understand that the Italians and Germans are a big market for madder ties. Apparently they like the England of the past. The English don't like them and in America they tend to be a bit darker than the prevailing taste.
     
  16. Roger

    Roger Senior member

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    I understand that the Italians and Germans are a big market for madder ties. Apparently they like the England of the past. The English don't like them and in America they tend to be a bit darker than the prevailing taste.
    (Bolding mine). I'm surprised to read this, as my only complaint with the current RLPL madder ties is that they aren't dark enough. They are Nos. 38, 40, and 45 in the link below:

    http://www.polo.com/category/index.j...ategories_Ties

    Just out of curiosity, what have you read, heard, or observed to suggest that "the English don't like them"?
     
  17. Film Noir Buff

    Film Noir Buff Senior member

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    (Bolding mine). I'm surprised to read this, as my only complaint with the current RLPL madder ties is that they aren't dark enough. They are Nos. 38, 40, and 45 in the link below:

    http://www.polo.com/category/index.j...ategories_Ties

    Just out of curiosity, what have you read, heard, or observed to suggest that "the English don't like them"?



    I think that fits right in with good old RL pandering to the prevailing taste. I was thinking of the ones that youd find in a quiet old London shop or haberdashers here.
     
  18. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    Alex,


    Thank you for the suggestions. Your art school sounds very interesting. Do you have a website?

    website
     
  19. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Your Mommy Daddy and me classes look wonderful! If we are ever nearby in the summer we may have to sign Samantha up. She is already very good at making an artistic mess with paper and pen.
     
  20. demeis

    demeis Senior member

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    Demeis, I tried Hansen's Clothing, a big supplier of Robert Talbott ties, but came up empty. Where do you get your Talbott ties, and are ancient madders available now? Coachvu, I tried both Ben Silver and Polo.com and came up empty. They don't seem to have them at the moment. Edward Appleby, same result at Brooks. Andrew, you may have put your finger on it when you said that Paul Stuart have them every fall. They don't seem to have any now, but given that this tie style is more of a fall/winter accessory, maybe I'm looking at the wrong time of year.

    Out of season now. I ordered them for next season for our store. They are a fall item as they go nicely with tweeds and heavier fabrics. Start looking early next season and if you can't find them send me a message as we will have them for next season.
     

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