Allen Edmonds Appreciation Thread - reviews, pictures, sizing, etc...

[CEE88]



Buying shell because you admire appreciate its beauty, rarity and unique properties makes sense to me. Trying to justify the cost on the basis of whether x number of shell shoes will last longer than y number of calf shoes just doesn't make any kind of sense to me at all. Do some reasearch on how much many shoes can be derived from a single horse (generally one pair only) versus one cow (a dozen - 16 pair?). Then factor in the length of time it takes to tan shell versus other leathers. The consider how many tanneries produce shell versus other leathers. These all contribute to the increased price for shell. Bottom line - if you don't like the look of shell, why are you even considering it?

Solid logic there, RogerP. I feel like I've learned to appreciate shell over time, having a few pairs, seeing many more on SF. If it was less durable than calf (assume shell was highly prized yet very delicate) then I definitely wouldn't even consider shell. So it's durability is definitely "a" (but not the only) factor in choosing shell over calf. At the same time, it seems that sometimes people understate the durability of calf when promoting shell as a "lifetime" shoe. There are a lot of examples of calf shoes lasting 20-30-40 years, and there are many NOS//deadstock calf shoes from the 1920s/30s/40s/50s available for purchase that are still supple and "as good as new." Shell is more durable than calf, but it's not like all calf dries up and shrivels away after 5 or 10 years. Some people just don't like how calf creases - all the little hairline cracks - but that's a different issue (same as if you don't like how shell looks).

 

[Roycru]

Wore the tan Strandmoks today......

 

[ScottyBoy920]

Just spoke with Allison. Should have my MTO bourbon wide basic dress belt in 6-8 weeks!

Thats great, glad you could reach her.

You mind me asking, how much was the belt? The standard cost of the other wide basic belts?

 

[MoneyWellSpent]

thanks for the input! Of course 3 pair of shell shoes is going to last longer than 3 pair of calf shoes, but will 3 pair of shell shoes last as long as 6 pair of calf shoes? Also, when I say "lasting" I'm not talking about how long the shoe will last before it completely falls apart and renders itself impossible to wear, I'm talking about how long a shoe will last before it becomes unpleasant to the eye.

From the pictures I have seen of shell shoes on this website. The rolls on their shoes are significant enough that the model of the shoe is nearly unrecognizable. I saw a few pair of brown shell shoes that looked not unlike the surface of a pan of freshly baked brownies (extremely wavy).

I see that the patina of shell is better, and that it improves over time. I also see that people seem to think that shell cordovan smells better. It seems that the advantage of shell is that the color is not just polish slathered on top of the leather, but rather the leather is tanned in such a way that the color of the leather itself is changed, which is why scuffs are more easily buffed out.

Is shell cordovan thicker/heavier than calf?

Yes it normally is thicker than calf, but it can depend and there is lined vs. unlined. Most of my shell has very little in the way of rolls but then again that is another reason that I stick with AE for the most part, 1 and 5 last especially fit me extremely well. And fit is very important to me. You have received some great replies already, and I agree with pretty much everything else said. The only .02 I could add is that only you can determine if shell is worth it, that is up to you in the end. But also be warned that englade is correct...

Cold Iron already touched on the thickness question. It's thickness and inconsistency that make most wearers fan of it, is also what makes some shoemakers dislike working with it.

I want to touch on what I bolded in your comment above though. Make sure you fully understand what shell is. It is called "leather" and it is considered leather by the tanneries that make it. It is classified as leather. However, it isn't skin. It is a muscle sheath. Specifically, the muscle sheath that lies directly under the skin of the hind quarters of the horse. As such, it has completely different properties than traditional leather. What you touched on regarding the depth of color is actually applicable to all leather. Cheap leather is only tanned on the surface. Good leather is tanned all the way through. Here's a decent summary: http://www.saddlebackleather.com/Leather-101

The tanning methods of shell are uniquely done because they are required to turn the raw material into what we call shell cordovan. It is not just a different method of tanning skins. In other words, you can't take a piece of cowhide and impart the same properties into it by tanning it with the same methods as shell cordovan and end up with the same product.

As for whether 6 pairs of calf will outlast 3 pairs of shell, it's obviously impossible to say due to the number of variables (which are nearly limitless). I would never presume to say one way or the other. I think it's possible that 3 pairs of shell shoes could have uppers that are in better shape than 6 pairs of calf shoes after a certain period of time. This is because each pair in a 6 pair rotation of calfskin shoes will still be worn frequently. At some point, you will reach the level of having so many shoes that they are simply never worn enough to show it.

However, don't miss what I said previously about the limited number of resolings that any Goodyear-welted shoe can take, no matter what it's made from. Just because the leather can last a certain period of time, doesn't mean that the shoe can! At some point, you will reach a level of diminishing returns due to the cost of shell. When you can afford so many more pairs of calf due to it's lower cost, you will inevitably end up with a longer lasting collection of shoes at some point, if you keep adding pairs. Then question is when. Nobody can answer that with anything definitive.

I think you are the only one who can answer whether a shoe is pleasant to the eye as far as that definition of "lasting" is concerned. It's too subjective for anyone to really answer that for you. Many here love "new" looking shoes, and others enjoy "old" looking ones.

 

[CEE88]



Sorry, CEE. That sucks.

Thanks, tifosi. If you need me, I'll be over in the Alden thread licking my wounds.

 

[green garden]

Hi,

Does anyone out there have the Townley, Lexington and Leeds? I would really appreciate a side by side shot of the Leeds with the either Townley or Lexington, or both if available. I am interested in comparing the length of the vamp, and subsequently the size of the opening for the foot. I am trying to find a brogued blucher pattern in the 1-511 for an MTO and have narrowed it down to the Townley and Lexington. But I want to make sure that the vamp proportion are indeed similar to the Leeds. A side by side top shot would be awesome if available.

Thanks!

 

[wurger]

For me AE has the edge in a few categories. Price is the biggest. I went with the AE patriots in burgundy shell and brown shell over the Alden LHS. The reason was primarily price. I got both pair (as seconds) for what I would have paid for one pair of Aldens. Plus you can't even get Alden cigar right now. The other area where I like AE is with their non traditional colors. I have the Daltons in walnut shell and the Dundees in cappuccino shell. While these colors may be soon gone from AE I liked them and picked them up (at full retail) because of their uniqueness. If, in the future, all AE offers in shell is black, burgundy and the occasional brown then Alden will probably be the better value unless you can get AE's on sale.


For me Alden makes a great casual shoe/boot and all my Aldens are worn with casual dress. AE excels in dressier situations which for me is most of the time. Let's face it, $700 for shoes/boots is expensive and the quality/value is not there at that price point. For another $100 I can get Carmina Shell or even Vass calf which both of these are far higher quality than anything AE or Alden makes. I've even seen some Edward Green shoes on sale at the $850 price point.

The greatest strength that I see in AE is that their prices are low compared to other brands. If this changes then they will lose their appeal. $345 (the current price of calf models) is higher than what most people will pay for shoes but that price is at least attainable. I know i've personally turned 5-6 guys to AE who would have never paid that kind of price without some prompting and pushing from me. Now that they have tried AE they will be customers for life unless the prices continue to sneak up. If that happens they will probably move to other brands. AE has a great niche in the market between lesser quality brands such as Cole Haan, Johntson and Murphy, Kenneth Cole and higher quality brands such as Crockett and Jones and Carmina. In my opinion AE needs to stay in that niche and if on occasion they can offer something unique (like they did with the walnut and cappuccino webgems) then all the better.

Well said.  I think AE is fully aware of this niche that they have created which is largely due to their price point.  I'd be surprised if it ever significantly changes.  I am sure prices will inevitably sneak up, but the prices of the other brands will likely sneak up accordingly.  Thus, the niche will likely still exist.  

Well said and pointed out, guys.

 

[wurger]



Buying shell because you admire appreciate its beauty, rarity and unique properties makes sense to me. Trying to justify the cost on the basis of whether x number of shell shoes will last longer than y number of calf shoes just doesn't make any kind of sense to me at all. Do some reasearch on how much many shoes can be derived from a single horse (generally one pair only) versus one cow (a dozen - 16 pair?). Then factor in the length of time it takes to tan shell versus other leathers. The consider how many tanneries produce shell versus other leathers. These all contribute to the increased price for shell. Bottom line - if you don't like the look of shell, why are you even considering it?

Well said, People really should decide their price point first before deciding which shoes to buy, it's a law of diminishing returns on all high end items, if you only looking at value vs quality, then you never need to buy luxury items.

 

[wurger]

Money, thanks for the information on shell, with all theses qualities, it's not that common in European shoes, I am sure there are plenty of horses in Europe.

 

[Yorker]

Hey guys, I just picked up some killer AE's at a thrift store, thought you guys would appreciate a look.

I guess they were a limited edition for the 1992 Olympics. Size 10.5 D. Sadly, they dont fit. so they're available.

 

[peppercorn78]

I've really enjoyed seeing y'all get creative with your MTO orders. In fact, it's got me thinking about taking the plunge myself.

Was thinking about maybe a derby like flatiron in burgundy calf.

Or...a navy suede saddle shoe? Maybe not the Shelton, as it might look too short and stubby in suede, but I wonder if they would do something like that on a sleeker last, like the 5 or 8...

 

[kwhitelaw]

do most take the Bayfield TTS? I've never been fitted for it and am thinking of a MTO..

tia

 

[Cold Iron]

Got a call from AE that my cappuccino shell Bayfields are done and shipping. It has been hot here the last week, 90-95 with high humidity and heat indexes running about 110 daily. I asked her if it was that bad over in Wi. and she said all of that and worse. The factory shop floor is not air conditioned and they are giving the workers extra breaks and trying to keep them hydrated. Having worked the shop floor in the SE under those conditions I know what it is like. And adds even more to my appreciation for those that do the work which goes into making my shoes and boots.

Hi,

Does anyone out there have the Townley, Lexington and Leeds? I would really appreciate a side by side shot of the Leeds with the either Townley or Lexington, or both if available. I am interested in comparing the length of the vamp, and subsequently the size of the opening for the foot. I am trying to find a brogued blucher pattern in the 1-511 for an MTO and have narrowed it down to the Townley and Lexington. But I want to make sure that the vamp proportion are indeed similar to the Leeds. A side by side top shot would be awesome if available.

Thanks!

I have the Townley and 3 pair of Leeds, those Lex are a good looking shoe! Now I feel like I am missing out on something by not having those Lexington's. The opening and vamp length is similar on both however the Leeds vamp sits just a bit higher (taller) and it looks like the opening on the Townley is actually larger because of that. Not by much but still it is a little bit larger. Just got home and grabbed the shoes to look at before I head out again. If you need better detail I can try to take a picture tomorrow but hope this helps.

 

[BootSpell]

The new rack looks awesome! I agree that the plastic/metal stands that are commonly available are crap. The rack you have looks like it could be extended vertically, if needed. Would you mind sharing the cost, and the split between labor and wood?

Also, do you only wear boots? I don't see any shoes in the pic

The wood was about $100, and it's some pretty nice aromatic cedar. I paid the woodworker $220, so that comes to about $320. Remember this is El Paso, where labor is pretty cheap.

 

[BootSpell]

Your cedar boot rack turned out very well with good spacing and room for air flow. Nice job!

Thanks, Cold Iron. It was a fun project and I enjoy the process of picking the boots to wear in the morning much more now.