Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mild Mannered, Sep 27, 2009.
I finally got to wear my web gem Neumoks today!!
Those are nice all 4 times, haha. Good looking shoe
Sorry about that fellas! My phone went nuts!!
Mediahound, you caught me. I wrote that statement before I went back to their website to see what they say there. I was aware of the quote cited by Frogwash, however, and I had in my mind that they have been open about the situation. Also, whether correctly or not, I have taken the "made of fine imported leather" printed prominently inside every shoe to include assembled uppers from the DR. I want to be careful to not sound like an AE cheerleader here, but I want to explain why you are getting the reaction you have to your statements. You are technically correct. Some portion of Allen Edmonds' shoes are made in the DR, and it is not prominently disclosed on their website, although as I said above, it could be taken to be disclosed inside the shoe. The issue I had with your initial post - and still disagree with you on - is the alarmist tone of your statements. First, as I said, this is old news here. I don't mean this to be flippant; rather that this is a forum of Allen Edmonds enthusiasts (of which you are one), and this topic has been discussed several times before. People here already know about this and have already decided how they feel about it. Your other point is the use of the tagline "The Great Shoe American Shoe Company", which you find to be disingenuous. Again, I think this is a technical argument, and most have already decided what they feel. Now, you are free to "boycott" AE if you choose, and to find another shoe manufacturer whose marketing and production you agree with (and in fact, there was a post earlier of someone who implied that they would stop buying AE based on your posts). But here are the reasons why I think people are sticking with AE: - Obviously, they are not breaking any laws. The content of their shoes labeled Made in the USA meet requirements - Other "American" companies have a portion of their products made outside the US. The best example might be the auto industry. No car is made of 100% sourced in the USA components - in fact, most are barely over 50%, and this includes our "Great American" auto companies Chrysler (talk about some rah-rah patriotic advertising lately!), GM, and Ford. In fact, Honda, Toyota, and others have Made in the USA cars. Old news, right? - The materials used in fine shoes are often sourced elsewhere, including the main material, leather. This is usually regarded as a plus, as someone stated earlier. And it works the other way, too - C&J, a fine "Made in England" shoe maker, uses Horween shell from Chicago. Should they skimp on their shell, because it has to be made in the UK from UK-raised cows? And in this case, AE clearly states that they use imported leather. --- And actually, here is a funny exception: My Horween shell shoes have the same "made of fine imported leather" stamp on them. However, the Horween shell is American. The soles are German. Someone could easily take this statement to mean that the entire shoe is made of imported leather, which would be incorrect. - There is a realism from people that this situation is a compromise to keep the price of AE's shoes in the $300 range. If there were no DR factory and everything had to made in the US, then we all assume prices would go up. - Their CEO has been forthcoming with the DR production in interviews, and so that has satisfied many people here. I think your issue is really with the "Great American Shoe Company" moniker. I think that has different interpretations for people, and you are free to take is as you choose. My point was simply that you have come in here with breaking news, gotten everyone excited, and then told us all something we have already known and processed.
Your phone loves the blue leather!
Is there anything new in there?
I think kmdsimpson said everything extremely well here, and I agree with all of it. The "Made of Fine Imported Leather" thing keeps frustrating me, because it keeps coming up. The label of "Made of Fine Imported Leather" is in no way a nod to the manufactering of shoes in the Dominican Republic. As kmdsimpson says, ALL of their shoes are now saying this on the insole. Using imported leather is not new, it is not a degradation of quality, and it doesn't represent a change in their methods. If you see an AE shoe without this label, it is probably old stock. It doesn't necessarily mean that it is made of USA sourced leather. I assure you, Alden shoes (since they are the other prominent American shoe maker) also purchases their hides (other than shell) from tanneries from other countries as well, just as all of the fine English shoemakers of Northampton do. Making a product from the best available materials frequently requires importing goods. Made in USA means alot to us from a quality and patriotic standpoint, but that doesn't mean that the USA produces the the highest quality natural materials all the time. If your country produces the best of a particular type of natural resource or material, it is often luck rather than human effort due to climate, geography, landscape, etc.
I appreciate you bringing this up. I'm sure a lot of people aren't aware of the sourcing of AE for its shoes. And, some people don't want to view the last 1200 pages of this thread. A corollary is Apple computer which has, rightfully, taken a lot of flack for having their iphones assembled in China, allegedly by child labor.
This forum tends to be a "cheerleader" type group re. AE. There seems to be a vehement reaction when someone brings up something negative about AE. I've had my problems with AE (bowing issue) and initially the reaction is, "this poster is nuts!". But you will see that eventually some reasoned voices will join in and agree with your sentiments. Keep at it!
BTW, love your unboxing videos of shoe and related products
Since the Park Avenue and Strand are on the same last (and basically the same shoe except for "decorations"), I would say get the same size in both. So I would stick with the 9D.
Wow, I don't know. The price may not be as far off base as you would think. The sheer cool factor of having a pair of vintage AE's that are around 50 years old in that condition makes them pretty valuable in my opinion. They really do look like they could have been made less than a year ago. I am impressed, and I'm not sure I've seen a pair of old stock AE's that are that old before. Most of the old stock shoes that I see are from the 80's or newer. Also, take notice and appreciate the heavy round metal cleat in the heel (similar to Florshiem Imperial's V-Cleat heels). Those things are built to last.
I believe you will see those in the 2013 Fall catalog.
You're probably right about it looking better when you don't look straight down at them. I do admire the "black jelly bean" color as someone here had described it. Good thing shell is water resistant; these will upgrade my Rockports as my go-to rain shoes.
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