LOL nice post! And then after more than 19,000 people watch it change your mind. Patrick when your done with the Reno will you please pass it over here? ;-) Sensationalism Hound your statement is False. You don't know where parts of your uppers were stitched together. And obviously do not understand manufacturing workflow and business, let alone an even bigger picture that exists. In addition to trying to keep the cost of your product to $150 or less than the Chinese market. Thank you very much for sharing those pictures. I have wondered where cigar fit into the shell rainbow and from what I could tell it was fairly close to AE Dark Brown. Now that I have a reference from your pictures it helps a lot. Work has been a bear over the last week and I've only had time to look at the Townley's quickly last night as the sun was going down, but the color on mine looks to be closer to the AE Dark Brown than Horween #449 (AKA Dark Cognac). They look closest to my brown shell Patriots from what I can tell so far. I will know better this weekend when I have a chance to clean and polish them and hopefully the sun will finally come out: Left to Right: Dark Brown, #449 (Dark Cognac), truffle (cappuccino), walnut. My C&J for RL Marlow's are the same color as my 744's above so I believe they are also #449. And my Alden Ravello chukka's are very close to the walnut above, but have acquired a little bit more red over time. Hope that helps.