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All suits are the same

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by projectrtown, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. projectrtown

    projectrtown Active Member

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    "Who cares about Derek Zoolander anyway? The man only has one look for christ's sake! Blue steel, Ferrari, Le Tigre? They're the same face! Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"
    -- Mugatu in Zoolander

    So after knocking about on Style Forum for a while, it really seems as though there is only one suit. The charcoal, regular lapel, properly cut, thinly shouldered, high arm hole suit. So there are some variations that, I don't think, count as real options today: double breasted, or peak lapels. There are other variations that are real options but don't necessarily change the basic suit too much: Navy blue.

    So what happens is that after a while, the suit afficianado starts fetishizing the smallest details. The buttons, or how high the button is, or something else that makes only a marginal difference to the overall look.

    I think that a suit is a suit is a suit, and if the cut is right, everything else makes only a tiny marginal difference to the over all look. But I still like suit(s). I want to wear suits that are different, but are still definitely not weird.

    So I guess here are some open questions:

    1. How many suits do you have that are not Navy or Grey?
    2. When do you wear them?
    3. What is your 3rd/4th suit?
    4. What do you regret about that nth suit?
    5. What do you like about it?
     
  2. Eastern Shoreman

    Eastern Shoreman Member

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    I have a question for you - how often do you wear a suit? If the answer is every day, and you're around people that wear suits every day, the little details matter. If you own one or two suits for special occasions, then you probably don't want to stay somewhat conservative. Many people on this forum have vast wardrobes and find style interesting - therefore, the little details matter.
     
  3. GBR

    GBR Senior member

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    What utter garbage.

    Do you even own a suit?

    Maybe don't feed the troll is the most apt comment.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Taylorstav

    Taylorstav Senior member

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    1. Six that are not solid navy or grey.
    2. Every week to work.
    3. 3rd/4th suit i think was a cotton black Hugo red label suit.
    4. I regret that the suit is black.
    5. It was pretty cheap.

    A suit is definitely not a suit. You can have two people in solid navy and know that one person put a hell of a lot more thought into his suit. You talk of fit like it's easy and no big deal. Perfect fit is exceedingly hard as you will notice if you creep the suit critiques.

    There are massive differences is fabrics and how they are woven, how the light hits them. Fineness of wool Super 120s 30s 40s 50s and so on. Handmade details, functioning cuffs etc. Fused vs. canvassed.

    You're opening up a serious can of worms by saying a suit is just a suit over here. Hahaha.
     
  5. DerekS

    DerekS Senior member

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    I have a few suits that are off colors, (light blue, tan linen, brown, etc) But ive found that i prefer my suits to be fairly basic. When I need color, I prefer a sportcoat and trousers.
     
  6. Master-Classter

    Master-Classter Senior member

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    if you think they all look the same then you don't know much about them...

    and I'm not just talking suits. It's the same for anything in life. To anyone who's uneducated about what they're looking at, everything looks the same, which also makes the value equation (price to 'quality') difficult to determine...
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  7. projectrtown

    projectrtown Active Member

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    1. What are your non-navy/grey suits? I have some pinstripe suits, but -- to my eye -- they look very much like the solid version of the suit. If the pin stripes get too big, I feel like a villain from Batman.

    2. I feel as though pin stripes, peak lapels, double breasted etc are not right for work. But maybe your work place is different.

    I agree that perfect fit is not easy, and with the general consensus that it is the most important thing about a suit.

    I agree with you that there are differences, but "massive"? I am happy with anything 120 and over.

     
  8. projectrtown

    projectrtown Active Member

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    Yeah, I guess the daytime suits are a different suit.
    I agree with you on the sportcoat/trouser combo being where I experiment with dressing up. (Or shirt-tie-pocket square varaitions).
     
  9. David Reeves

    David Reeves Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    If this isn't a troll thread;

    I would have to say that as a designer, (although I have, and do design other things) I make a living with suits and enjoy working on them because the little details make a big difference. You have a garment that is basically the same fundamentally whoever makes it and I find it interesting and challenging to work within those restraints to create different looks, feelings and attitudes. Those subtle changes can make a big difference. Its a bit like typography in balancing style and function. Like typography there are lots of "rules" as well but the first rule is "if it looks right it is right".

    Theres more to life than charcoal and Navy, basic wardrobe builders would be:

    Light grey
    Mid grey
    French Navy
    Summer suit in khaki
    Dark Brown
    Black with stripe
    Dinner suit

    Then you could try these in different cloths like Flannel or mohair. A light grey cloth in Mohair will have a very different look and feel from Flannel in the same color.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  10. projectrtown

    projectrtown Active Member

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    I am making a similar point, I suppose. But there is a difference between learning about something, and emotionally connecting with it. I sense the difference that high arm holes make, for instance, but except for the upkeep, I don't "sense" the difference between fused and canvassed (to take on example). It remains a theoretical difference about bubbling and upkeep. So even if one is made aware of certain distinctions, it doesn't follow that one feels them with the same force.

     
  11. projectrtown

    projectrtown Active Member

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    I wear them when I meet with foreign clients (once or twice a month), or at special events. I have plenty though, and wish I had more opportunities to wear them.
    I think you misunderstood my point: I *want* to wear more suits, with more varieties, on more occasions. I enjoy them. I just find that they aren't all that different.
     
  12. Taylorstav

    Taylorstav Senior member

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    For non solid navy/grey I have: 1 grey with white pinstripe (with hacking pockets and a ticket pocket) 1 grey with purple windowpane (with hacking pockets and a ticket pocket) 1 navy herringbone. 1 grey micro-gingham 1 cotton khaki 1 cotton solid black 1 solid black 1 navy with white pinstripe (with a ticket pocket and small peak lapel) I guess I have more than six...lol Your solid greys and blues don't have to be boring, on one of my other threads I just posted you can see I'm having a solid charcoal suit being made with large peak lapels and hacking/ticket pocket. Your problem is that you're taking a very top down view of this. Suits across all price ranges have a lot in common, that's why they can all be identified as suits. So no, the differences aren't as massive as comparing a suit to say a....fence-post. But if you're going to compare one suit to another, the small differences become large, and depending on how much of an enthusiast you become, the minute details become even bigger. Example: Level 1 enthusiast: You notice when someone looks nice in a suit. You can actually determine that a suit looks good/bad on someone. Level 2 enthusiast: You notice specifics on how things fit generally, shoulders, pant break, cuff showing etc. Level 3 enthusiast: You notice and appreciate some large stylistic details on a suit, peak lapels, cuffed pants, buttonhole on the lapel. Level 4 enthusiast: You notice and appreciate small details on a suit, quality of cloth, pick stitching, hacking pockets, kissing buttons etc. Level 5 enthusiast: You notice and appreciate the minute bespoke details like grosgrain in the cuff, hand sewn buttonholes, fully functioning cuffs, how a full canvass jacket drapes vs fused. No one here is gonna tell you that you need to be as detail conscious as what I would call a level 5, but I would advise against coming on an enthusiast site and saying a suit is just a suit. You're right, its just clothing. But for most of us here it's a hobby, and it's those small differences that make us look fantastic instead of just "nice." A suit is a suit, like a car is a car. Depends on how you look at it.
     
  13. David Reeves

    David Reeves Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    There are huge differences, I just pulled these off my computer quick, but here are some grey suits I have made up with rather different looks from each other. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  14. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    1. Eight, including a cotton khaki, silk cream and a tux.
    2. Daily depends on season.
    3. Light gray glen plaid and navy pinstripe.
    4. Not bespoke.
    5. Adds depth to my wardrobe.
     
  15. usctrojans31

    usctrojans31 Senior member

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    What a silly thread. By your rational, all cars are the same, including a Bugatti Veyron and Smart 2x4. After all, they have the same basic looks: the box (frame, car, etc), the engine, and the wheels.

    To use my own Zoolanderisms to retort to this. What is this? A thread for morons? The real thread needs to be at least....five times smarter.
     
  16. projectrtown

    projectrtown Active Member

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    You are right. The real thread must spell the word rationale correctly.
    Sorry, it was just too easy.

     
  17. hellodocks

    hellodocks Senior member

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    Wow, purple windowpane on a gray suit ... I wish I could get away with that in my office...
     
  18. Ebichuman

    Ebichuman Senior member

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    Knock about some more because you clearly could you use the education. Go to the WAYWRN thread for starters and enjoy the variety.
     
  19. Doug11

    Doug11 Well-Known Member

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    I dont agree with the op but I can see where he is coming from.
     
  20. Taylorstav

    Taylorstav Senior member

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    It's a pretty thin windowpane. Hahaha.
     

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