• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Paul Sargent (formerly Alfred Sargent) Appreciation Thread

muddy250

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
807
Reaction score
2,637
I have both cognac and mahogany, and the difference between them is really quite negligible. I use mahogany on my AS Moore Cherry, as advised by afinepairofshoes. Paging @muddy250 for second opinion. View attachment 1010648

I only have mahogany as suggested by AFPOS, not tried anything else but very happy using that. And navy blue to bring out some tonal contrast ☺️

Enjoy the Moores Blekit. They really are beautiful and beautifully made shoes.
 

Eucris

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
165
Reaction score
75
These perhaps? I got them from the J Crew store in Toronto Eaton Centre this week...

View attachment 1009143

View attachment 1009144

View attachment 1009145

View attachment 1009146
Those look like the sort of shoes Alfred Sargent used to make for its own label before it launched the Handgrade and Exclusive ranges. Thus it is not an equivalent of the Armfield which will be made to a much higher standard. I don't know the name of the model but I recall seeing these at John Rushton's shop many years ago.
 

WilYa

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2016
Messages
746
Reaction score
1,218
John Rushton used to be mentioned a lot whenever one were to mention a shoe shop in London. Haven't heard anything in years. Any news here?
I walk past the shop every week, it had its glory but now this is gone as most English makers opened their own stores in London in recent years. No more AS or Cheaney, I think they are selling mostly mid-low tier shoes like Sanders and Trickers but maintains its high standard of presentation, curation and service.
 

Vinilo1969

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Messages
353
Reaction score
760
I started buying English shoes in the past 12 months. The Alfred Sargeant shoes I bought from J Crew ranks in quality similar to my Loake 1880 Aldwych, and lower than my Crockett and Jones. Would that be a fair evaluation or should my regard consider Alfred Sargent’s highest offerings to be fair?
 

UNOAIMX

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
Messages
331
Reaction score
264
I started buying English shoes in the past 12 months. The Alfred Sargeant shoes I bought from J Crew ranks in quality similar to my Loake 1880 Aldwych, and lower than my Crockett and Jones. Would that be a fair evaluation or should my regard consider Alfred Sargent’s highest offerings to be fair?

I would not consider J Crew Alfred Sargent offerings to represent true Alfred Sargent quality. J Crew AS retail offerings meant to compete with Brooks Brothers (Golden Fleece (non GYW) shoes / made in Italy) and entry level GYW Allen Edmonds Offerings. In this area the J Crew Alfred Sargent actually is better value for money. But when compared to Brooks Brothers peal Co (Crocket Jones bench grade made) shoes, the J Crew Alfred Sargents are a notch beneath. However, that is a retailer's business choice to choose what products to offer.
The Alfred Sargent Exclusive line - which is rarely carried by US Retailers. (AS Moore, Hunt, Armfield, Radwell, Ramsey) and Country range (Cambridge, Bexhill, Howard, Hoxton...) of shoes is in the same price segment as Crockett and Jones bench grade - and I would say offer better value for money and is quality wise on the same level or slightly superior (can be argued) as Crockett and Jones Bench Grade (more diverse offerings of shoes and width options, AS Exclusive currently does not have width options on F width). I would not say they are Crockett and Jones handgrade level yet (although construction wise - closed channel stich and last shape elegance is on par), but the AS Exclusive range uses inferior leather cuts compared to crockett jones handgrade and lacks the finishing touch of the handgrades (but then again C&J handgrades are 30-40% more expensive).

Basically for Alfred Sargent, you get what you paid for, if you want better quality, move up to the Alfred Sargent Exclusive line (which is their "highest offering" currently. Good luck
 

jssdc

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
954
Reaction score
401

shoesforever

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
278
Reaction score
481
@jssdc Thanks! They're on the 724 last and purchased back in 2016 when AFPOS used to have their own models made by Alfred Sargent. I believe AS can still make GMTO with a minimum of 10 pairs. Hoping that we will be able to organize one here in the near future.
 

Eucris

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
165
Reaction score
75
Just to be clear, the Alfred Sargent "Exclusive" range is superior to the Crockett and Jones "Benchgrade" range. The only fair comparison to make is the Crockett and Jones "Handgrade" range.
 

shoesforever

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
278
Reaction score
481
Not gonna say who's right or wrong about leather quality. I do find that the more I learn about leather and fabrics, the less I know though :D For example what makes one leather better or higher quality exactly. Different kinds of leather have different properties. So the best leather for each person would be the ones with the properties you would like it to have and what you use them for. Some leathers are thicker, some are thinner, some are blemish free, some are embossed, some are supple etc Some of it has to do with the base leather chosen before the tanning. Some of it has to do with what animals they come from and some again has to do with the way they are tanned or whether they are split leather or not etc

Some examples to highlight some of the properties people mention whenever they describe the better leather vs the worse leather:

1. Leather creasing. Some high end crust leather crease a lot, but they are chosen from the best cuts, but they last just as long and can be resoled just as many times. Creasing can be made worse if the last of the shoe is too shallow or does not fit properly. The type of shoe can also affect creasing. Like a wholecut vs a longwinged brogue.

2. Who can say that the finest calf with no blemishes in bespoke shoes is more durable or resistant to abrasion than work boots in oiled leather?

3. Suppleness has a lot to do with the age of the calf. Yet, suppleness can also be achieved through the tanning process and finishing processes like for example tumbling of leather. Also the moisture level in the given leather.

4. Grade of leather. In part it has to do with which part of the animal the leather is taken from, but also how blemish free it is.
Does the blemishes really affect the quality of the leather or is it just cosmetics? In order to cover up blemishes one can give the leather some kind of treatment in order to cover them up. One can do oil stuffing, one can make hatch or grain leather or one can make suede leather. All of the aforementioned leathers are used in high end shoes.

5. Thickness of leather. Leather can be used whole or split up into thinner parts. Usually the unsplit leather is stronger and more durable, but the thickness may also be affected by the age of the calf. Leather from older animals like cows are thicker than calfskin. Yet we do not consider them to be better. Different types of leather from different tanneries also have different thicknesses.
 
Last edited:

flylikeneagle

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
1,797
Reaction score
8,628
I would not consider J Crew Alfred Sargent offerings to represent true Alfred Sargent quality. J Crew AS retail offerings meant to compete with Brooks Brothers (Golden Fleece (non GYW) shoes / made in Italy) and entry level GYW Allen Edmonds Offerings. In this area the J Crew Alfred Sargent actually is better value for money. But when compared to Brooks Brothers peal Co (Crocket Jones bench grade made) shoes, the J Crew Alfred Sargents are a notch beneath. However, that is a retailer's business choice to choose what products to offer.
The Alfred Sargent Exclusive line - which is rarely carried by US Retailers. (AS Moore, Hunt, Armfield, Radwell, Ramsey) and Country range (Cambridge, Bexhill, Howard, Hoxton...) of shoes is in the same price segment as Crockett and Jones bench grade - and I would say offer better value for money and is quality wise on the same level or slightly superior (can be argued) as Crockett and Jones Bench Grade (more diverse offerings of shoes and width options, AS Exclusive currently does not have width options on F width). I would not say they are Crockett and Jones handgrade level yet (although construction wise - closed channel stich and last shape elegance is on par), but the AS Exclusive range uses inferior leather cuts compared to crockett jones handgrade and lacks the finishing touch of the handgrades (but then again C&J handgrades are 30-40% more expensive).

Basically for Alfred Sargent, you get what you paid for, if you want better quality, move up to the Alfred Sargent Exclusive line (which is their "highest offering" currently. Good luck

Concur with your assessment in general. I own AS x J Crew brogue boots, AS Hanover (country line), and AS Cambridge x AFPOS (made to Exclusive specs, and insoles say "Exclusive" vs "Country" on the Hanover ). I'd say my AS x J Crew boots are a step above Allen Edmonds. The leather quality is comparable to AE or may be slightly better, but the finish is very impressive - on par with my C&J footwear (Northcote boots, Cardiff in shell cordovan, C&J for Peal in shell cordovan). I've owned these for 2.5 yrs and worn them on average 4 to 5 times a month - they've held up very well so far.

Here's a side by side shot of my AS x J Crew boots and AE Daltons (both brand new at the time, AS on left)

DSC_1100.JPG

My Cambridges were samples, and probably not best representatives of the Exclusive line, the one glaring flaw being speedhooks are horribly misaligned on one boot (worse than anything I've seen on AE, AS, Alden or C&J). Love the boots though - high quality design and materials, and good attention to detail (not withstanding speedhook issue). I can't really compare the leather to my C&Js since these have pebble grain calf vs waxed calf on Northcote and shell cordovan on the other two.
 
Last edited:

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 85 37.6%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 86 38.1%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 24 10.6%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 35 15.5%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 36 15.9%

Forum statistics

Threads
506,438
Messages
10,589,425
Members
224,236
Latest member
Bardz
Top