• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • We would like to welcome House of Huntington as an official Affiliate Vendor. Shop past season Drake's, Nigel Cabourn, Private White V.C. and other menswear luxury brands at exceptional prices below retail. Please visit the Houise of Huntington thread and welcome them to the forum.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Alden Price Increase

robin

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
12,378
Reaction score
161
Originally Posted by amlai
And then I'm guessing that all of the soles on the shoes come from European sources as well. I'm sure there are plenty of other components that are similarly sourced.
Yep, almost all of the raw materials (besides the leather) comes from foreign markets.
 

CodeRed

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
353
Reaction score
1
Why wouldn't USA shell work..we have an seemingly over abundance of horses here. They are all the same aren't they?
 

amlai

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
268
Reaction score
14
Originally Posted by CodeRed
Why wouldn't USA shell work..we have an seemingly over abundance of horses here. They are all the same aren't they?

There really aren't that many horses here. Particularly, they need large draft horses in order to get shells big enough to make shoes from. And it isn't like the farmers here in the US are using horses like they used to... most of the farmwork is now done using tractors.
 

robin

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
12,378
Reaction score
161
Originally Posted by amlai
There really aren't that many horses here. Particularly, they need large draft horses in order to get shells big enough to make shoes from. And it isn't like the farmers here in the US are using horses like they used to... most of the farmwork is now done using tractors.
Not so. There are lots of suitable horses here, but slaughtering them like cattle is very restricted in the U.S. and will probably become harder to do in the future (if not impossible). See legislation H.R. 503. Edit: I just did some quick searching and it looks like the "humane" type groups got around the whole bill passing thing by getting the various slaughterhouses' federal funding pulled, effectively shutting them down. Edit 2: Wikipedia actually has a decent and balanced article on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_slaughter
 

CodeRed

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
353
Reaction score
1
There was a recent article in the LA Times staing that there are way too many horses in the US. They aren't being used for food as much anymore and with the price of hay skyrocketing due to the extended lack of rain in the USA (brought in from as far away as Canada) many people are essentially abondoning horses, which is expected to only get worse as the housing market continues to decline along with consumer spending. That was the gist of the front page article anyway. I almost hate to say it , but it did make me think about the availbility of shell when I read it...
 

amlai

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
268
Reaction score
14
Originally Posted by CodeRed
There was a recent article in the LA Times staing that there are way too many horses in the US. They aren't being used for food as much anymore and with the price of hay skyrocketing due to the extended lack of rain in the USA (brought in from as far away as Canada) many people are essentially abondoning horses, which is expected to only get worse as the housing market continues to decline along with consumer spending. That was the gist of the front page article anyway. I almost hate to say it , but it did make me think about the availbility of shell when I read it...
While this may be true, most of these horses are not horses large enough to produce shoes from. And yes, while slaughtering horses is effectively impossible here in the US, to my knowledge, there isn't any reason why horses that die of natural causes wouldn't be able to be used. What I've been told is that there simply isn't any reliable supply here in the US.
 

LeatherSOUL

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Messages
1,265
Reaction score
38
FYI I'm sure you know but the horses that provide the shells are not slaughtered for their shells.
 

robin

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
12,378
Reaction score
161
Originally Posted by amlai
What I've been told is that there simply isn't any reliable supply here in the US.
Yes, "reliable" is a better way to put it.

And yes, while slaughtering horses is effectively impossible here in the US, to my knowledge, there isn't any reason why horses that die of natural causes wouldn't be able to be used.
It can be a bit of a hassle to move a dead horse around.
laugh.gif
 

JLibourel

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
8,287
Reaction score
501
Originally Posted by amlai
While this may be true, most of these horses are not horses large enough to produce shoes from.

One of my very best friends, Greg Kramer, uses a great deal of horsehide and shell in making holsters and belts, and we have discussed this often. He is friends with the Horweens and Skip Horween has been a house guest of his on occasion. I think normal-sized horses can provide ample-sized shells for shoe manufacture. The vast majority of shoes are made from several pieces of leather, all of which are considerably smaller than the average-sized shell, which is typically an oblong about 15 inches or so in diameter at the widest point. (Wholecuts might present a problem, admittedly.) Where the problem does come in is making belts. Huge draft horses that can provide shells long enough for even a short belt are very rare these days, and not just in the USA. I am at the moment wearing a belt that consists of three pieces of shell laminated to horsehide. Be aware that some outfits will advertise "one-piece cordovan" belts. These are acually horsehide, not true shell cordovan.

Most shell comes from France, where hippophagy is still fairly widely practiced. Leighann, who was manager at the A-E Cabazon outlet for about a year, is a very active horse-breeder on the side. As she was selling a pair of shell cordovan MacNeils to my stepson's half-brother, I asked her whether dealing in shell cordovan shoes bothered her. "It does," she replied, "but at least they are French horses." (Which I took to mean that she took comfort in the fact that none of her colts would end up as a pair of A-Es rather than that she was extending popular Francophobia to their horses.)
 

amlai

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
268
Reaction score
14
Originally Posted by JLibourel
I think normal-sized horses can provide ample-sized shells for shoe manufacture. The vast majority of shoes are made from several pieces of leather, all of which are considerably smaller than the average-sized shell, which is typically an oblong about 15 inches or so in diameter at the widest point. (Wholecuts might present a problem, admittedly.)
While what you say is absolutely true, my understanding was that there was a significant preference for using a single shell for a single shoe, the reason being that there was more uniformity amongst the pieces when making a shoe in this way. Anyways, I guess we're veering off topic a bit...
 

edmorel

Quality Seller!!
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
25,963
Reaction score
5,157
Wasn't Barbaro just put to sleep? Can't I get a pair of shoes made from him?


Anyway, we breed all sorts of animals for food, why we can't breed horses for shells (and use their other parts, like their tallow, for food) is beyond me. I eat cow, chicken etc and wear leather so I have no issues with killing horses as long as a large percentage of the carcass can be used for consumption/leather.
 

Tarmac

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
7,134
Reaction score
39
It just sounds like stupid american sentimentality to me. You saw how people started assigning "feelings" "character", "elegance", "intelligence" , "gusto" and on and on and on to Barbaro. I'm not saying animals aren't complex, but there is no way in hell a horse has more of these qualities than a cow. Americans, especially rich americans with some political clout, love their horses, almost as much as they love to slaughter cows for steak. I can see why such laws exist and I don't see it changing soon.
 

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
26,705
Reaction score
9,841
Chicago banned fois gras. The latter is delicious; therefore, I hate the former. If people only knew the kinds of things chickens and cows go through before we eat them.
 

RJman

Posse Member
Dubiously Honored
Spamminator Moderator
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
19,159
Reaction score
2,086
Originally Posted by mafoofan
Chicago banned foie gras. The latter is delicious; therefore, I hate the former. If people only knew the kinds of things chickens and cows go through before we eat them.
Yikes, we agree again. I like being able to eat veal, too, without fearing a lecture.
Originally Posted by JLibourel
Most shell comes from Freedom, where hippophagy is still fairly widely practiced.
Yeah, tastes like slightly tougher beef. Cheaper, though.
 

August

New Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
I can't wear out my Alden's. For the price they are an incredible value.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 55 35.5%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 60 38.7%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 17 11.0%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 27 17.4%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 28 18.1%

Forum statistics

Threads
505,161
Messages
10,579,024
Members
223,882
Latest member
anykadaimeni
Top