Agnostics and Atheists - do you ever pray?

[cross22]

Originally Posted by Gibonius

I'm more trying to frame why people bother making a distinction between the various shades of atheist vs agnostic. Yes, a lot of it has to do with US culture, the almost total rejection of "atheism" here, and the type of people who are willing to openly call them self an atheist.

The descriptions are massively generalized to describe what the US public thinks of for those groups. You say "atheist" here and people think "God hating asshole." You say "agnostic" and people think "weenie who can't make up his mind." Neither is at all positive or particularly descriptive of what most atheists really believe.



I am an atheist, in that I do not have any belief in God. I do not believe it is a knowable question, however. Many in the US do, and their influence on the debate and social acceptance of atheism here is negative in my eyes.

I understand what you are saying. I think the cause and effect are reverse though. I don't think the atheists have given atheism a bad name, I think the strong negative perception of atheism discourages all but the most confrontational and militant atheists from publicly admitting their atheism.

 

[blahman]

I prayed as hard as I could once, when my grandmother had a stroke, for her to get well. She woke up, I was happy, then she died the very next day. If there really is a so called god, he/she/it's a ******* asshole - so **** religion.

 

[Gibonius]

Originally Posted by cross22

I understand what you are saying. I think the cause and effect are reverse though. I don't think the atheists have given atheism a bad name, I think the strong negative perception of atheism discourages all but the most confrontational and militant atheists from publicly admitting their atheism.

I agree, never meant to say otherwise. I am certainly not at all public about the fact that I'm an atheist, but when it comes up, I have to distinguish myself from the militants. That's the point I'm trying to make, I guess.

 

[cross22]

Originally Posted by Gibonius

I agree, never meant to say otherwise. I am certainly not at all public about the fact that I'm an atheist, but when it comes up, I have to distinguish myself from the militants. That's the point I'm trying to make, I guess.

 

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by HelloIDistance

I agree. The only reason I label myself as an atheist is because that is the most appropriate label for me. I'd rather not be labeled at all. I find religion to be ridiculous to be honest. The fact that I label myself an atheist as pertaining to the thought of an almighty "god", does not mean I do not believe there are higher beings somewhere in the universe. If that made any sense at all.

Well, it could be that "higher beings" came down to earth and people referred to these beings as "God." The experiences, teachings, legends, etc. could have led to what we know as religion. Who knows, but both religious and atheists (or agnostics or whatever) could be right.

 

[blahman]

Originally Posted by Dragon

Well, it could be that "higher beings" came down to earth and people referred to these beings as "God." The experiences, teachings, legends, etc. could have led to what we know as religion. Who knows, but both religious and atheists (or agnostics or whatever) could be right.

Higher beings

. Reminds me of Flatland.

 

[kwilkinson]

Originally Posted by blahman

I prayed as hard as I could once, when my grandmother had a stroke, for her to get well. She woke up, I was happy, then she died the very next day. If there really is a so called god, he/she/it's a ******* asshole - so **** religion.

dumbest post in this thread

 

[blahman]

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

dumbest post in this thread

Except, it wasn't a joke.

 

[kwilkinson]

Originally Posted by blahman

Except, it wasn't a joke.

makes it even more dumb, as a thought process. not making light of your grandmother's death or how hard it was on you, bc that part is sad.

 

[esaul17]

I've never prayed. I mean, you can hope beyond hope something will (or won't) happen, but to pray to a being I don't believe exists would just be very silly.

 

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by esaul17

I've never prayed. I mean, you can hope beyond hope something will (or won't) happen, but to pray to a being I don't believe exists would just be very silly.

You could pray to yourself

There are many people who believe "God" is within yourself. You don't have to necessary pray or seek something from an external figure.

In that sense, everyone hopes and wills things to happen (or not), so everyone is praying, including you.

 

[esaul17]

Originally Posted by Dragon

You could pray to yourself

There are many people who believe "God" is within yourself. You don't have to necessary pray or seek something from an external figure.

In that sense, everyone hopes and wills things to happen (or not), so everyone is praying, including you.

In that sense, sure, but I don't use the word in that sense. There is a distinct difference between asking an external supernatural power to bend the laws of the universe in your favour and just hoping something will happen. To use the same term for both I think takes away from the chasm between them.

 

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by esaul17

In that sense, sure, but I don't use the word in that sense. There is a distinct difference between asking an external supernatural power to bend the laws of the universe in your favour and just hoping something will happen. To use the same term for both I think takes away from the chasm between them.

The point is, IF we are all God (God within ourselves), then there may be no difference. By hoping or willing, we may all be praying to God whether we believe or not.

 

[tagutcow]

Originally Posted by Gibonius

Tagut certainly put a lot into writing all that, but I'm trying to find a message other than "I don't like annoying teenage atheists with no intellectual depth."

Is it just annoying teenage atheists? The offending terms had already been bandied about in this thread quite a bit by several people- including yourself- before I ever weighed in.

Well, derp. You need nine paragraphs to say that? The whole thing read like you trying to make yourself superior to those lame nerdy atheists.

Well naturally I'm superior. I am, after all, the fifth smartest person on StyleForum.

 

[Gibonius]

Originally Posted by tagutcow

Is it just annoying teenage atheists? The offending terms had already been bandied about in this thread quite a bit by several people- including yourself- before I ever weighed in.

I believe that my stance has been adequately contextualized, and would invite discussion on stances that you found "offending" in that regard. I responded to you earlier on this and I think what I posted earlier works fine here.

Originally Posted by Me from THE PAST

To remove the hyperbole from the scenario: when it comes down to it, you can't make a rational case for belief in the supernatural (God, pixies, whatever you want to discuss). It all comes down to faith. I don't have faith, myself, but I'm 100% willing to accept that as an argument; it's just a different argument, one that isn't based on logical reasoning. The supernatural breaks the rules, so we can just accept that it's impossible to apply logic to it, say we have faith or not and move on. The problems arise when Christians insist on making logical arguments to support their faith, or applying their faith to natural (and thereby logically amenable) questions, or when atheists are douchebags.

I do know scientists who are Christian. They generally put a wall around their work. They learn to be strictly logical and rational almost all the time, but leave a small section for spirituality and the supernatural. It's interesting, seems to work for some of them. I couldn't rectify it, perhaps because I grew up in a very conservative religion that didn't allow for that kind of segmentation.

Rationality is a quantifiable thing, one can rule whether an issue is rational or not. This is not (should not be anyway) a value judgement. Not being rational does not equal "bad."