1. Styleforum Gives - Holiday Charity Auction 10: A full set of Aesop's Fables pocket squares from Vanda Fine Clothing

    We are very proud to present this year's edition of the Styleforum Holiday Charity Auctions, this year in support of the Ronald McDonald House Charities of Spokane (www.rmhcspokane.org). Each Auction lasts 24 hours. Please follow and bid on all the auctions.

    The 10th auction of the year is for a full set of Aesop's Fable's pocket squares from Vanda Fine Clothing. Please bid often and generously here

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Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by esquire., Apr 23, 2005.

  1. christian

    christian Senior Member

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    I can't stand how obese people try to pressure us into believing that fat is acceptable and even beautiful. I hear this all the time from fat people. They complain that Drew Barrymore is on the cover instead of the rotund Queen Latifah. And, that makeover shows never have enough obese participants. They'll even try to argue that ballernias should be obese. It was so disgusting, they were so excited about this piece on CNN that featured these obese ballernias in Cuba. Never mind that they were so obese that they couldn't make the leaps and jumps any other ballernia could perform.
     


  2. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Drew Barrymore - love the girl. Seems reasonably intelligent and savvy, remarkable for a scion of Hollywood royalty, looks like she has gotten over a lot of her insecurities, and looks comfortable in her body, which is probably about right for her. Having hung out around enough models while in LA, one of my biggest observations was that a girl who doesn't actually enjoy food is a pretty good indication that she doesn't really enjoy life too much either. There is a fine line between healthy and obsessed with being model "perfect". I prefer the former.
     


  3. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Stylish Dinosaur

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    I'll readily admit Drew Barrymore is a beauty, but I think QL is gorgeous, too.

    Honest.
     


  4. Bradford

    Bradford Current Events Moderator

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    No - advertising is about fantasy - not reality. It's the same reason that beer ads show guys surrounded by beautiful (often swimsuit-clad) women. That's the fantasy - that if I drink a Bud Light, I will attract these women. An ad showing real people drinking would be much scarier.

    Women will not buy a dress shown on a Size 22 model. Heck, even Emme, the best known plus-size model is only like a size 14, which is actually the size of the average American women.

    Does advertising work - the obvious answer is YES. If it didn't work, they wouldn't spend so much money on it.

    Bradford
     


  5. JLibourel

    JLibourel Distinguished Member

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    I'm surprised the subject hasn't come up already on this thread about the models for quality menswear. More often than not they are long-haired, stubble-bearded 20-year-olds. If they weren't wearing the Corneliani suit, I'd be kind of afraid they'd, at best, panhandle me, at worst, mug me. I think few men who are able and willing to drop $1,100 (or whatever) on a Corneliani suit (for example) wish to look like a long-haired, stubble-bearded 20-year-old, and few 20-years-olds, certainly not those who espouse those tonsorial standards, are going to be lusting after $1,000+ pinstripe suits. So, why the use of these models?
     


  6. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Actually, the average American woman is size 12. The thing is that beyond a certain size (I'll draw the line arbitrarily at 14) women become less attractive because they generally start to lose the shapeliness that emphazises secondary sexual characteristics, and become more "blob" like. (Same goes the other way too, but 1) Americans (in general) have a youth fetish, and 2) plastic surgery can augment these characterics on extremely thin women.) An analogous argument can be applied to obese men.
     


  7. HeyYouItsMike

    HeyYouItsMike Well-Known Member

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    (esquire. @ April 23 2005,00:37) Let's say your a size 22 woman. Will an image of a stunning, size 2 model in a beautiful dress really make you want you to buy it? Wouldn't you be more likely to buy it if you saw the dress on a larger person, and got an idea how attractive it would look on you?
    No - advertising is about fantasy - not reality. It's the same reason that beer ads show guys surrounded by beautiful (often swimsuit-clad) women. That's the fantasy - that if I drink a Bud Light, I will attract these women. An ad showing real people drinking would be much scarier. Women will not buy a dress shown on a Size 22 model. Heck, even Emme, the best known plus-size model is only like a size 14, which is actually the size of the average American women. Does advertising work - the obvious answer is YES. If it didn't work, they wouldn't spend so much money on it. Bradford
    +19849839 Fashion is very aspirational, definitely not based in reality. And I think Emme is HOT.
     


  8. Bradford

    Bradford Current Events Moderator

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    Women will not buy a dress shown on a Size 22 model. Heck, even Emme, the best known plus-size model is only like a size 14, which is actually the size of the average American women.
    Actually, the average American woman is size 12. Â The thing is that beyond a certain size (I'll draw the line arbitrarily at 14) women become less attractive because they generally start to lose the shapeliness that emphazises secondary sexual characteristics, and become more "blob" like. Â (Same goes the other way too, but 1) Americans (in general) have a youth fetish, and 2) plastic surgery can augment these characterics on extremely thin women.) Â An analogous argument can be applied to obese men.
    OK - she's a 12, but I only mention this because I have seen articles where large women are offended because plus-size models are too small - and are actually more representative of the average women, rather than the plus-size market these ads are geared toward.
     


  9. esquire.

    esquire. Distinguished Member

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    I emailed somebody I knew in advertising, if he had any insights he could share. I've edited out the personal stuff, but here's some of what he said:

    Hard question to answer quickly or succinctly. Advertising expenditure as a percentage of unit cost fluctuates wildly depending upon the type of product one is describing, as well as the corporate philosophy of the manufacturer.

    Clothing manufacturers (or, more accurately, wholesalers since so few mainstream labels actually sew their own products) spend an inordinate amount of money, not in television, but in print media. The cost of a multi-page spread in a fashion magazine is lower than a national, network or cable, tv spot. But the breadth of placement makes for a large aggregate expenditure in spite of the cheaper unit placement cost.

    aparrel manufacturers spent about 4.3% of their sales on advertising in 2004. To compare, here are some other industry's advertising spending:

    aparrel mfg 4.3
    aparrel stores 3.7
    beverage 9.0
    liquor 15.8
    dolls, stuffed toys 11.2
    food 11.1
    games 8.8
    motion picture studio 12.5
    soap 11.6
    cleaners, polish 10.9
    tv broadcast 11.2

    I don't think it is fair or accurate to state that advertising makes up a majority of the costs of aparrel; especially when compares the clothing industry's expenditure compared to booze or cleaning products.

    As the figures I cited point out, advertising, obviously, adds to the cost of goods sold. But at the levels indicated, it is not enough to make up the price differences.

    The obvious contributors to the price differentiation are raw materials, labor, physical overhead, design/development cost, advertising and marketing expense and desired profit margin. I'd guess the easy answer to "the" question is that all of the above are higher in the case of high=priced garments. The greatest factor may well be the desired profit margin.
     


  10. odoreater

    odoreater Distinguished Member

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    Hmm, I see you didn't ask him about my theory that they use skinnier models because they take up less advertising space...
     


  11. vc2000

    vc2000 Senior Member

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    Good question - I have wondered about this myself.  I sometimes see a model in a magazine and wonder if they are trying to appeal/expand a market that doesn't really exist?  Or maybe the market is I've been charged with a crime and undergoing a trial - I bought the suit but didn't have the cash for a haircut and shave?

    John Molloy talked in his book about the fashion industry attempting to sell something that didn't work in the real world.  I have always chalked it up to this.  

    I will admit that the ads turn me off to their suits.  I don't associate them with workable clothing rather frilly fashion items.  But then I'm probably just an old foggy.
     


  12. christian

    christian Senior Member

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    I don't see how anybody could find anybody over a certain size attractive. I think of all the folds of fat, and how hard it is to clean their skin properly.

    There's a backlash brewing where normal sized people are getting sick of the obese agenda. They'll try to drag a beautiful woman like Kelly Ripa, and start making these innuendos that she's too thin.
     


  13. LabelKing

    LabelKing Stylish Dinosaur

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    Lisa Fonssagrives-Penn, the top model of the 50's, and 60's had a 17 inch waist.
     


  14. Patrick06790

    Patrick06790 Senior Member

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    Back to those twenty year olds with long hair and stubble - in their attitudes of repose, they appear to be contemplating the works of Kant while gazing soulfully into the distance.

    I suggest a series of suit ads featuring regular men at work:

    -The man making a face at his ringing telephone, but looking pretty suave in the process.

    -The man leaving the washroom discreetly checking his fly.

    -Or the rehab counselor (ahem) chasing the teenager attempting to smuggle cough syrup into the facility. "Our collars stay put - even when you can't."
     


  15. Matt

    Matt [email protected]

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    [​IMG]
     


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