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About to purchase my first Flat Panel...

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by stevo41, May 24, 2007.

  1. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    I always use these threads to rave about my 1080p Hewlett Packard tv. I have blu ray and the pic is amazing. It's also amazing with my hi def cable box and game systems. It's not flat panel but it has a relatively small footprint. Does this add anything to the thread? No, but it's always all about me [​IMG]

    This is a technical thread my friend, if you want to have any amount of credibility whatsoever you can't say think like "hewlett packard" you have to use acronyms like HP, for those extra nerd points. Please edit your post, I am deeply offended.
     
  2. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    I just bought a 40" Sony LCD tv two months ago. I believe it was the 40V2500. Paying the extra money for the XBR model didn't seem worth it to me. I specifically wanted a 1080p model so the tv would be able to last me at least a few years.

    I have quite a bit of ambient light so I went for LCD rather than plasma. I also wanted a low profile and so I did not look at any of the rear projection models.

    If you have a dark room, plasma is cheaper and has much better contrast ratios. ie. blacks look blacker

    One other consideration between 720p and 1080p for LCD is the pixel size. Most LCD panels are not manufactured with all the pixels working properly. Some might not work, some might be stuck 'on'. These are known as bad pixels. 1080p screens have smaller pixels so these won't be as noticeable.

    A salesman told me that the Sony XBR model was not worth the upcharge over the standard Sony 1080p model. I couldn't tell the difference between the two sets looking at them side-by-side.

    Did you look at the Sharp Aquos and Samsung models? What made you choose the Sony?
     
  3. aportnoy

    aportnoy Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I recently picked up a 40" LCD 1080i Sharp Aquos and I'm still amazed at the picture quality and performance of the set. I'm running an HDMI cable through a hi-def cable box.

    I highly recommend them![​IMG]
     
  4. dkzzzz

    dkzzzz Senior member

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    Can human eye see the difference in details between 480P, 720P and 1080P from 8 feet away?
    I am not asking for anecdotal evidence, is there scientific proof?
    I would look into this topic before making a purchase of so called HDTV.
     
  5. MCsommerreid

    MCsommerreid Senior member

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    Also a thought, if you're going to use an HTPC or something like an Xbox 360 with it I definitely recommend at east 1080i. 720p is good for TV and DVDs, but when you run it off a PC, especially if you're gonna play games on it, the lack of resolution is really apparent.

    Not scientific, but yes, I can. It's not really noticeable beyond "hey, that image looks better" with TV, but with games the jaggies really show up at the lower resolutions.
     
  6. Southern-Nupe

    Southern-Nupe Senior member

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    Can human eye see the difference in details between 480P, 720P and 1080P from 8 feet away?
    I am not asking for anecdotal evidence, is there scientific proof?
    I would look into this topic before making a purchase of so called HDTV.

    There is some difference in detail, however it may not be as great as some make it out to be. You may see some improvement in detail when going from 480p to 720, as well as 720 to 1080p.

    I personally feel, that if budget is a major factor, he'll be just fine with 720p. Technology continously improves, 5 years down the road it'll be something new, so it may pay to evaulate how long you plan on having the set.
     
  7. dkzzzz

    dkzzzz Senior member

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    I dont' think that 1080P has a frame rates higher than 30, which is FR of a regular interlaced TV. While 480P and 720P have a rates of 50 and 60 available thus making them superior.
    Human eye seem to have resolution comparable to 576 megapixels at 120 degree angle.
    I am not technical enough to conclude how does it compare to TV resolutions.
    Can I simply multiply 1280x720(720P) and get pixels fill?
     
  8. Southern-Nupe

    Southern-Nupe Senior member

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    I wish I could answer your question regarding the human eye as it correlates to tv resolution. I can say that I see the difference in detail between watching 480p (i.e. a standard dvd) versus a HD movie in 720P. On the other hand, I'll admit that I can't really see the difference between 720 and 1080P. I'm not a video-phile though, so the jump from 720 to 1080, to me has been somewhat irrelevant.
     
  9. dkzzzz

    dkzzzz Senior member

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    Little side note. I feel that TV shows will never be broadcast in true 1080P. I heard from TV people that even at 720P resolution the make-up and props should be completely different. Nothing cheap could be used anymore because viewers can easaely see cheap backdrops and props. Actors also not too happy with us seeing their every pimple, wrinkle and nose hair.
     
  10. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    I dont' think that 1080P has a frame rates higher than 30, which is FR of a regular interlaced TV. While 480P and 720P have a rates of 50 and 60 available thus making them superior.

    That's wrong. 1080p in its standard spec is 60fps. The difference between 1080p and 1080i is how the image is produced. With progressive, the whole image is updated at once, 60 times per second. With interlaced (1080i, or 480i), each line that makes up the picture is updated on an alternating basis, which causes all sorts of artifacts in the image.

    Even 1080p60 isn't perfect, because film is generally shot at 24fps, so it has to be converted to suit the display, which wants to show 60fps. We'll soon begin seeing 1080p monitors that can accept 1080p24, thereby eliminating any artifacts from sources that output 1080p24. Most people probably don't notice because they're so used to looking at crappy SDTV and dvd.
     
  11. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    Little side note. I feel that TV shows will never be broadcast in true 1080P. I heard from TV people that even at 720P resolution the make-up and props should be completely different. Nothing cheap could be used anymore because viewers can easaely see cheap backdrops and props. Actors also not too happy with us seeing their every pimple, wrinkle and nose hair.

    that's a bandwidth issue. Right now they're broadcasting in 1080i and 720p afaik, both of which require substantially less bandwidth than 1080p. You should also consider that even at these lower resolutions, hell even at normal tv resolutinos, the cable and satellite companies tend to cram too many channels on to their available bandwidth, and so they over-compress everything and it ends up looking shitty. You're right, 1080p will not be broadcast any time soon.

    PS. If anyone actually wants to find out what resolution they should be considering, read the link i posted above. Read the chart and the paragraph below it.
     
  12. Southern-Nupe

    Southern-Nupe Senior member

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    Little side note. I feel that TV shows will never be broadcast in true 1080P. I heard from TV people that even at 720P resolution the make-up and props should be completely different. Nothing cheap could be used anymore because viewers can easaely see cheap backdrops and props. Actors also not too happy with us seeing their every pimple, wrinkle and nose hair.
    I can't say whether or not stations will ever broadcast in 1080p, but I'm pretty sure it won't happen for quite some time. There are still plenty of stations, who have yet to go HD.
     
  13. Southern-Nupe

    Southern-Nupe Senior member

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    that's a bandwidth issue. Right now they're broadcasting in 1080i and 720p afaik, both of which require substantially less bandwidth than 1080p. You should also consider that even at these lower resolutions, hell even at normal tv resolutinos, the cable and satellite companies tend to cram too many channels on to their available bandwidth, and so they over-compress everything and it ends up looking shitty. You're right, 1080p will not be broadcast any time soon.

    PS. If anyone actually wants to find out what resolution they should be considering, read the link i posted above. Read the chart and the paragraph below it.

    Agreed, personally I'm just as happy receiving a HD signal over the air, due to the lack of compression.
     
  14. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    Also a thought, if you're going to use an HTPC or something like an Xbox 360 with it I definitely recommend at east 1080i. 720p is good for TV and DVDs, but when you run it off a PC, especially if you're gonna play games on it, the lack of resolution is really apparent.



    Not scientific, but yes, I can. It's not really noticeable beyond "hey, that image looks better" with TV, but with games the jaggies really show up at the lower resolutions.


    You're right to a certain degree, but you should be careful about which HD display you choose for gaming. A lot of them introduce lag in to the experience because of the extra processing required by the display to convert the image, not to mention the extra processing required by the computer to drive a 1900x1200 display. And btw 720p is find for gaming. It's what the xbox360 outputs so I don't know what you're talking about. And for all it's talk about 1080p games, the vast majority of PS3 games will run at 720p. It requires a significant increase in computing power to push 1080p resolutions. Some displays have game modes which are intended to decrease lag on HDTVs. They're not all equal, however.
     
  15. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    Note that the LCD, plasma, silicon-processed (SXRD, DLP, D-ILA), and other "digital" displays only display in progressive, so there's really no such thing as a 1080i monitor. That only means the monitor's inputs can accept 1080i, and it will deinterlace and convert it to whatever the native progressive resolution is. Not really great for computer work, especially text --- it's best to configure your computer to output the native resolution of your monitor.

    Some TVs can figure out if a 1080i source is made from film, and do inverse telecine to reconstruct the full 1080p resolution played back at some integer multiple of 24 fps. So even if there are no broadcast 1080p sources, you can get true 1080p material at the right frame rate. Only some really high-end TVs, and a handful of standalone video processors can do this.

    Resolution of the human eye has estimates from 1 to 0.3 arc-minutes (there are many different numbers). You can figure out the rest from those numbers.

    --Andre
     
  16. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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  17. dkzzzz

    dkzzzz Senior member

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    Note that the LCD, plasma, silicon-processed (SXRD, DLP, D-ILA), and other "digital" displays only display in progressive, so there's really no such thing as a 1080i monitor. That only means the monitor's inputs can accept 1080i, and it will deinterlace and convert it to whatever the native progressive resolution is. Not really great for computer work, especially text --- it's best to configure your computer to output the native resolution of your monitor.

    Some TVs can figure out if a 1080i source is made from film, and do inverse telecine to reconstruct the full 1080p resolution played back at some integer multiple of 24 fps. So even if there are no broadcast 1080p sources, you can get true 1080p material at the right frame rate. Only some really high-end TVs, and a handful of standalone video processors can do this.

    Resolution of the human eye has estimates from 1 to 0.3 arc-minutes (there are many different numbers). You can figure out the rest from those numbers.

    --Andre


    Andrew there is no way to get the TRUE anything if any processing involved. If it is not true 1080P source streaming to true 1080P receiver with a NATIVE resolution of 1080P there is a loss of quality and detail.
     
  18. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    Andrew there is no way to get the TRUE anything if any processing involved. If it is not true 1080P source streaming to true 1080P receiver with a NATIVE resolution of 1080P there is a loss of quality and detail.

    That's quite a statement you're making. Do you know how inverse telecine works?

    --Ander
     
  19. dkzzzz

    dkzzzz Senior member

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    That's quite a statement you're making. Do you know how inverse telecine works?

    --Ander


    No I don't and neither do you.
     
  20. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    No I don't and neither do you.

    Wow. What's with the hostility? I know perfectly well how inverse telecine works, and if you read the link I supplied, you will too. Once you know how it works, you will know how 1080p can be completely recovered from 1080i.

    --Andre
     

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