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A visit to PN\P Firenze

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by unbelragazzo, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    People like Carol Christian Poell actually PLAN for their garments to be uncomfortable, they never want you to forget that you are wearing the pieces/being bonded with them, it is more like an alien presence than some sportwear notion of not feeling the garment, we're talking Germanic stiffness here not Italian body-consciousness. In a similar veins CCP leathers bear the trace of the suffering the animal went through, you can never forget it used to be the skin of a living thing that went through an abattoir. Similar aspects might be at play here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014


  2. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    MA+, CCP etc are not concerned with bourgeois good taste (what you call true elegance), it is not something that enters into play.
     


  3. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    I can't really add much to Fuuma's excellent post above...but what does the jacket look like to you? What impression do the long sleeves give you? Something more articulate than a GBR-esque "dreadful" please...
     


  4. kashmir

    kashmir Senior member

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    looks great, needs better-lit pics, wear it with white shirts (traditional tailoring or otherwise) and bam!
     


  5. sinnedk

    sinnedk Senior member

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    Do you stack the long sleeves? When i tried on the ma+ it fit well but sleeves were obnoxiously long and i don't like "editing" something a designer like ma+ intended.
     


  6. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    Marco suggested stacking, and I think especially if the sleeves go to your fingertips like they do on you, but I kind of like the sleeve length on me, so I've just been leaving it as is.
     


  7. sinnedk

    sinnedk Senior member

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    IC, i was wondering who to deal with it because i like the jacket a lot. is your version lined?
     


  8. sinnedk

    sinnedk Senior member

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    Agreed.

    Those guys are all about their art, they don't care who buys it. Even though Lenny Kravitz and Brad Pitt would be great advertisements for them.
     


  9. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    Yep, I think with wool.
     


  10. thegreatgatsby

    thegreatgatsby Senior member

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    There is a level of pretentiousness to this statement that it smacks of something Kanye West might have said to a Vogue reporter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014


  11. thegreatgatsby

    thegreatgatsby Senior member

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    Again - I have a great deal of leather in my wardrobe - and fur - but I must say that if you truly want to honor the suffering of the animal, then perhaps one shouldn't wear the animal's skin in the first place. [The idea here is - I'll make the jacket uncomfortable, so the wearer of the jacket will be uncomfortable and be reminded of the animal's discomfort?]

    I've spent some time around Jeff Koons, and I heard him "explain" his philosophy behind many of his paintings, and it sounded as preposterous as this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014


  12. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    Why would you say it is pretentious? If you knew anything about these designers and their work you would understand that they're not concerned with "beauty" in the way classical tailoring would be. It is a very simple statement that properly explains why your post doesn't make sense in the context of these pieces. Someone like CCP does not reject bourgeois good taste but rather has absolutely no concern or relation to it.

    As for CCP well I certainly wouldn't say it is out of concern for the animal itself but rather due to a macabre fascination with abattoirs and the physical traces of suffering inscribe on the skin etc, that you may find pretentious, like I give a fuck. He also regularly references Viennese Aktionism.


    A friend of Carol's lost her favourite horse so, being the nice gentleman that he is, he had it sent to Austria and taxidermied in a similar way to his jackets.

    [​IMG]


    note: Jeff Koons is a shitty artist, what's your point?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014


  13. manself

    manself Member

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    Unbelregazzo, sorry for the slow reply.

    I'm uncomfortable (which, from what you say about your jacket I guess makes two of us) judging your personal appearance, but in general I simply don't get this luxe post apocalyptic hobo aesthetic. It might work for rock stars on stage, but I don't think it translates to every day life. A very tight jacket makes me think the wearer is trying to pretend to be something he's not.I don't like tailored jackets that are cut very close to the body, with the fabric pulling, I don't like tight trousers where the wearer's calves cause the fabric to bulge, and I don't like tight shirts. I'm not keen on the colour black. If this reveals my bourgeois taste, so be it. It probably says more about my age, and my belief that looking good is about wearing clothes with enduringly elegant proportions. In my opinion drop-crotch trousers make a man look worse than God intended, while high-waisted trousers make a man look better than God intended; I favour high-waisted trousers.

    As for the wisdom of the designers, of course they're welcome to their artistic vision, but just because they set out to make uncomfortable, ill fitting clothes doesn't make it a worthwhile endeavour. That said, I do admire anyone who stays true to their own version of fashion, because it's a very lonely road to walk.

    Your jacket makes me think of Hollywood stars like Tom Cruise dressing casually. But what I say doesn't matter, because we must all wear the clothes that please us. It would be hellish if we all dressed the same.
     


  14. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    You and gatsby are completely missing the point of this article and these clothes...THIS IS NOT LIKE TAILORED CLOTHING. Nobody said anything about shirts, trousers, or tailored jackets. Or drop-crotch trousers for that matter. Fight the urge to blurt out "drop-crotch trousers!" every time you see something that isn't classically tailored clothing. When I wear tailored clothing, I also wear high-waisted trousers. I've even written a whole article about it:

    http://asuitablewardrobe.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-cut-of-trouser.html

    But this is not tailored clothing. Nor is the intent of this article to get you to give up tailored clothing in favor of leather jackets like this one. Or even really to convince you that you should like these leather jackets, or that it's "good" on some scale that you have in your head. It's just to present this aesthetic to you and describe to you what it is. Which is, once, again, NOT TAILORED CLOTHING.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014


  15. manself

    manself Member

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    You see a distinction between tailored clothes and non-tailored clothes that eludes me. The proportions and cuts that flatter the male body remain similar whether one's talking about tailored clothes or casual ones. The proportions of drop crotch trousers (a term that seems to irritate you) don't please my eye whether they're made from washed black cotton, or finest West of England flannel. Either way they make a man look like he's got very short legs. Similarly the impression I get when I see a man in a tight leather jacket is the same as the impression I get when I see a man in a tight Neapolitan jacket. I entirely accept it's possible for guys to look good in casual clothes, just not the casual clothes we're discussing here.

    But rather than knock heads can I ask a question? Can you put into words the impression you believe this leather jacket, and the overall PN/P look, projects? I'm interested in clothes, and I've never 'got' this look, so I'm genuinely interested.
     


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