• I'm happy to introduce the Styleforum Happy Hour, our brand new podcast featuring lively discussion about menswear and the fashion industry. In the inaugural edition, a discussion of what's going on in retail today. Please check it out on the Journal. All episodes will be also be available soon on your favorite podcast platform.

  • Styleforum Gives - Holiday Charity Auction 3: Yeossal handwelted shoe with lasted shoe trees

    We are very proud to present this year's edition of the Styleforum Holiday Charity Auctions, this year in support of the Ronald McDonald House Charities of Spokane (www.rmhcspokane.org). Each Auction lasts 24 hours. Please follow and bid on all the auctions.

    The 2nd auction is for a pair of handwelted shoe with lasted shoe trees courtesy of Yeossal. Please bid often and generously here

    Fok and the Styleforum Team.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

A Victimless Crime?

Contingency Plan

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
893
Reaction score
58
I've heard people attempt to justify their actions by suggesting that no one got hurt. A common example would be filesharing; one could argue that this serves as free advertisement for artists; the unpaid downloads offset by those who are exposed to otherwise unknown material and subsequently decide to buy it.

My question is this: is there such a thing as a victimless crime? If so, does that make it any less a crime? I suppose what I'm getting at is whether morality can be divorced from a relational framework: can something be called "wrong" if no-one (or indeed nothing, eg. the environment) suffers from it?

As a Christian, I don't think there is. Even if ostensibly there is no victim, my relationship with God still suffers when I do bad things, so you could say that there always is a victim - if not others, then myself/God. Obviously this doesn't mean much to atheists, so let me know what you guys think!
 

rxcats

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
576
Reaction score
38
Originally Posted by Contingency Plan
I've heard people attempt to justify their actions by suggesting that no one got hurt. A common example would be filesharing; one could argue that this serves as free advertisement for artists; the unpaid downloads offset by those who are exposed to otherwise unknown material and subsequently decide to buy it.

My question is this: is there such a thing as a victimless crime? If so, does that make it any less a crime? I suppose what I'm getting at is whether morality can be divorced from a relational framework: can something be called "wrong" if no-one (or indeed nothing, eg. the environment) suffers from it?

As a Christian, I don't think there is. Even if ostensibly there is no victim, my relationship with God still suffers when I do bad things, so you could say that there always is a victim - if not others, then myself/God. Obviously this doesn't mean much to atheists, so let me know what you guys think!


I'll respond even though I am an atheist.

I guess it would depend on how you define "crime". If you are a woman in Saudi Arabia and drive a car, you are committing a crime. If you are a white man and married to a black woman in 1950's Virginia......you betcha, a crime is committed. If you had helped a Jew escape from Nazi Germany or a slave escape bondage in the South, you would have been deemed a criminial.

I believe we are sometimes morally obligated to commit crimes, as in the contect above, but often the term "victimless crime" is misused to excuse selfish and bad behavior.
 

MetroStyles

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
May 4, 2006
Messages
15,830
Reaction score
31
I agree with rxcats to some extent. I think what you are truly getting at is morality, not crime, which opens up a whole separate can of worms, especially on this forum.

Crimes and laws are set by governments, which are separate from religion. Victimless crimes do exist - for example, smoking marijuana in your own house.

Morality is another issue altogether. I think what you are asking is: "Should I always do the 'right' thing as I was brought up to do / my current belief system instructs me to do"? If I am off-base let me know. But to answer your original literal question - yes many government-defined crimes are victimless and no, I do not feel guilty if I commit a crime that I deem victimless.
 

mafoofan Jr.

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
521
Reaction score
0
You have good moral standpoint and I agree with you, but given today's standards for morality, your conscience is usually right even if the world perceives the action differently. I wrestle with this everyday.

Originally Posted by Contingency Plan
I've heard people attempt to justify their actions by suggesting that no one got hurt. A common example would be filesharing; one could argue that this serves as free advertisement for artists; the unpaid downloads offset by those who are exposed to otherwise unknown material and subsequently decide to buy it.

My question is this: is there such a thing as a victimless crime? If so, does that make it any less a crime? I suppose what I'm getting at is whether morality can be divorced from a relational framework: can something be called "wrong" if no-one (or indeed nothing, eg. the environment) suffers from it?

As a Christian, I don't think there is. Even if ostensibly there is no victim, my relationship with God still suffers when I do bad things, so you could say that there always is a victim - if not others, then myself/God. Obviously this doesn't mean much to atheists, so let me know what you guys think!
 

Tokyo Slim

In Time Out
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
19,178
Reaction score
14
Jaywalking.
 

Eagle

Senior Member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
468
Reaction score
1
No such animal exists...there are always victims!
 

Connemara

[URL='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jST2Sv63WQ']
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
39,510
Reaction score
1,758
Originally Posted by Nantucket Red
Adultery with a neglected woman in a loveless marriage. People have told me I ought to be hung for this. I am.
 

rach2jlc

Prof. Fabulous
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
14,980
Reaction score
1,044
Originally Posted by Nantucket Red
Adultery with a neglected woman in a loveless marriage. People have told me I ought to be hung for this. I am.
Red, you're a living, breathing Tanizaki novel. Subarashii!
 

GQgeek

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Messages
17,933
Reaction score
84
Originally Posted by Tarmac
prostitution


You would have to do your due diligence for it to be victimless. Some women are prostitutes by choice, but others are forced into it through the sex trade. I would be highly suspect of any agency that was full of eastern European women, for instance. I have no problem with people that engage in sexual activity with willing participants, but I would find it morally reprehensible for someone to do it with the second type. It's basically a facilitated rape and I wish men wouldn't turn a blind eye to it just because they have a hot body in front of them.
 

scarphe

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
5,114
Reaction score
137
Originally Posted by GQgeek
You would have to do your due diligence for it to be victimless. Some women are prostitutes by choice, but others are forced into it through the sex trade. I would be highly suspect of any agency that was full of eastern European women, for instance. I have no problem with people that engage in sexual activity with willing participants, but I would find it morally reprehensible for someone to do it with the second type. It's basically a facilitated rape and I wish men wouldn't turn a blind eye to it just because they have a hot body in front of them.
bad play here coersion, kidnapping and prostitution are different acts. prostitution does nto hurt anyone directly accept possibly the people in the act. the coersion, kidnapping and possibly rape yes are connected to the industry but they are separate from the moral act of prostitution.
 

GQgeek

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Messages
17,933
Reaction score
84
Originally Posted by scarphe
bad play here coersion, kidnapping and prostitution are different acts. prostitution does nto hurt anyone directly accept possibly the people in the act. the coersion, kidnapping and possibly rape yes are connected to the industry but they are separate from the moral act of prostitution.

Fair enough.
 

Arethusa

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
5,128
Reaction score
72
Originally Posted by GQgeek
You would have to do your due diligence for it to be victimless. Some women are prostitutes by choice, but others are forced into it through the sex trade. I would be highly suspect of any agency that was full of eastern European women, for instance. I have no problem with people that engage in sexual activity with willing participants, but I would find it morally reprehensible for someone to do it with the second type. It's basically a facilitated rape and I wish men wouldn't turn a blind eye to it just because they have a hot body in front of them.
I don't know if you were the last person on this forum I would have expected to read this from, but if you weren't, you weren't far from it.
Originally Posted by scarphe
bad play here coersion, kidnapping and prostitution are different acts. prostitution does nto hurt anyone directly accept possibly the people in the act. the coersion, kidnapping and possibly rape yes are connected to the industry but they are separate from the moral act of prostitution.
Academically, maybe. In the real world (barring exceptions mostly confined to very expensive prostitutes), it's not an especially meaningful distinction.
 

Milhouse

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
2,059
Reaction score
1
Originally Posted by GQgeek
You would have to do your due diligence for it to be victimless. Some women are prostitutes by choice, but others are forced into it through the sex trade. I would be highly suspect of any agency that was full of eastern European women, for instance. I have no problem with people that engage in sexual activity with willing participants, but I would find it morally reprehensible for someone to do it with the second type. It's basically a facilitated rape and I wish men wouldn't turn a blind eye to it just because they have a hot body in front of them.

Great. Thanks for ruining xmas for me.
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

How many pairs of shoes do you own?

  • 1 - 4

    Votes: 25 3.3%
  • 5 - 10

    Votes: 129 17.3%
  • 11 - 20

    Votes: 238 31.9%
  • 21 - 30

    Votes: 118 15.8%
  • 31 - 40

    Votes: 68 9.1%
  • 41 - 50

    Votes: 47 6.3%
  • 51 - 60

    Votes: 23 3.1%
  • 61 - 70

    Votes: 22 2.9%
  • 71 - 80

    Votes: 16 2.1%
  • 81 - 90

    Votes: 6 0.8%
  • 91 - 100

    Votes: 7 0.9%
  • 100+

    Votes: 48 6.4%

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
428,618
Messages
9,221,513
Members
193,574
Latest member
forestradio
Top