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A proposal to the moderators

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by horton, May 10, 2006.

  1. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Stylish Dinosaur

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    My only suggestion would be to not publicize the punishment of minor transgressions.
    I think horton has a very valid point. As one who has spent a great deal of my adult life counseling "troubled" organizations, I can say without reservation that once a body starts bickering about its rules, it is not long for this world. I was astonished once when working with a church to hear them arguing about minute little aspects of their by-laws. This little skirmishes ate up all the parishoners' time and talent, and the real objective of the church was left behind.

    I choose the church example with great care, because I think we here at StyleForum are a congregation of sorts: we come from many walks of life, and are united by a fairly singular love or, at very least interest, in style. We are all part of one body. And that body, sadly, has become overtly hostile, picking at scabs and slinging ungentlemanly barbs about with increasing frequency.

    I asked one of the moderators in a PM if it is just me, or does this place feel more militant since the "crash"? I think since we all returned home from our temporary digs at AAAC that we've lost a lot of the respect and (dare I say) love for one another.

    It seems to me that a forum such as this will always have its boors and its trolls. There will be bannings and time-outs. There are in real life, so why should I expect it to be any different here?

    But I think the talk of such, as horton suggests, might be better left in the secret squirrel department. Keep it between the mods in their private little lair. To that end, j, I respectfully suggest the transparent mods thread be taken off the "for public consumption" level and into the back rooms.

    I don't want to be regarded as some odd offspring of the coupling of Rodney King and Pollyanna, but we all came here to talk and share and learn about style (and some sports and booze and chicks and cars, etc.). Can't we all put these largely childish digressions to rest and get back to what we love?

    and now back to your regularly-scheduled programming.
     


  2. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    There's the answer: we just have to run the forum like a pirate ship!

    You mean that we walk miscreants off the plank! That would be entertaining...[​IMG]
     


  3. j

    j (stands for Jerk) Admin

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    It is an absolute shame to see sysdoc, andrew portnoy and others leave and such, but correct me if I'm wrong - this had nothing to do with the moderators. The disputes between the members were between them and not us.

    I'm sure someone else will happily correct you, but yes moderators were involved in both of those incidents, though not necessarily while wearing their moderator hats. I know sysdoc in particular said he was most outraged at "SF the institution", and raged against a thread being moved temporarily, etc. etc...
     


  4. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

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    Great post Dakota Rube (as always). I agree with you 100%.
     


  5. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

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    I'm sure someone else will happily correct you, but yes moderators were involved in both of those incidents, though not necessarily while wearing their moderator hats. I know sysdoc in particular said he was most outraged at "SF the institution", and raged against a thread being moved temporarily, etc. etc...

    Yea, I think you're right, but this also happened after everyone struck a nerve with the Vass shoes thread. I think this is normally not the case. Until very recently I've never heard anyone complain about the institution of SF, only about particular members.
     


  6. skalogre

    skalogre Distinguished Member

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    You mean that we walk miscreants off the plank! That would be entertaining...[​IMG]
    [​IMG] Yarrrrr! More seriously, I wholly agree with DR. I also noticed people being more on edge after the crash. I know that for me part of it was the sudden reemergence of certain individuals who lacked a certain tact and sense of politeness to say the least. Still, I am sure we can keep chugging along and let things settle down. Edit: As usual, my messaging is slow.
     


  7. j

    j (stands for Jerk) Admin

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    But I think the talk of such, as horton suggests, might be better left in the secret squirrel department. Keep it between the mods in their private little lair. To that end, j, I respectfully suggest the transparent mods thread be taken off the "for public consumption" level and into the back rooms.

    Noted. As I'm sure you know, that thread was intended to address concerns over unfair moderation, etc, and to consolidate the "what happened to" questions. I don't know if it's the best solution, but moderation concerns have been a big issue lately and I was hoping to keep them all off to the side rather than having them erupt in every thread.

    We'll see how it goes for a while, then decide whether to keep it around.
     


  8. gorgekko

    gorgekko Distinguished Member

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    I cannot speak for others but my self-imposed (and short-lived) exile last month was because of the less welcoming tone that SF had taken on since its return from the crash.

    I must admit that I am puzzled that so many people seem on edge. It just came out of the blue.
     


  9. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Maybe a new punishment would be having to listen to me sing "Don't worry, Be Happy" over the phone... [​IMG]

    Doo doo doo doodoo doodoo doodoo'doodoo..

    Fok.
     


  10. skalogre

    skalogre Distinguished Member

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    Maybe a new punishment would be having to listen to me sing "Don't worry, Be Happy" over the phone... [​IMG]

    Doo doo doo doodoo doodoo doodoo'doodoo..

    Fok.


    Rotfl
     


  11. CTGuy

    CTGuy Made Guy

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    Just when I thought I was out- you pull me back in. I feel like I have to break my self-imposed exile to say something here.

    I have read SF since pretty much the very beginning. I sometimes wonder how much of a "contributor" I have really been, but I have certainly been an appreciative student.

    SF has certainly changed a lot since its inception, but I am not sure that is entirely a bad thing. In the beginning I think we were all a bit overly mindful of our manners just to compensate for what we had seen at the GQ Forum. I think as time wore on a sense of community grew among forum regulars and the steady stream of newbies and we all felt a bit more comfortable in engaging in dialogue about all kinds off issues. I think over time there developed a sense that we were all "friends" no matter what our viewpoints might be on a particular subject. After all, we were here to engage in discussion and debate and how would that be possible without criticism, questioning, and wrangle over all types of issues.

    In some ways, the recent goings on do not phase me. We have had a long list of crazies come through here over time and honestly I think all of us enjoy the drama on some subconscious level (or at least we're drawn to it) otherwise we would just ignore it. We have also had people leave the forum since the very beginning (see PStoller, Vero Group) that were unquestionably more valuable to germination of this place than any of the more recent defections.

    I felt the need to write this in order to stick up for J specifically and in an ancillary way the mods of the forum. If you are worried about being banned and you are a new member or someone who does not post a lot- sorry, you are going to have to be careful what you say and how you say it lest you be considered an a$$hole too promptly. You may notice that members who have been here for a while get a little more slack when they say something questionable (this even includes our resident whackjobs), because there is a reliable reason to believe that these people have something valuable to contribute and maybe they're just having a bad day. It's sort of like being a made guy in the mob- if you're made you can't be whacked without the ok of the boss and a lot of good reasons; if you're not a made guy- you better play nice, otherwise there is not much impediment to sending you to sleep with the fishes.

    This is not to say that I think people should not say what they think. One thing that I think I touched on supra is that I think most of us have a sense that you shouldn't take anything too personally. I will totally own up to being pretty no holds barred about my opinions in some of the political threads and obviously I expect the same thing back from guys I don't agree with politically (that's what makes it interesting!). But when it comes down to brass tacks, I have nothing against those guys-- if anything I have plenty of respect for them.

    If I can make any observation about what has been going on lately it is that there is an unfortunate combination of bad attitudes, thin skin, and prima dona-ism. One thing I am frequently amused by is how seriously some people seem to take themselves. Let me tell you that this does not translate well to an internet based situation. If you are used to people giving you a certain automatic respect because of your job/business/upbringing, you simply cannot expect that to carry over to an anonymous open internet forum, which is in large part the beauty of this place. High school students can trade barbs with Wall Street traders on a level playing field armed only with their respective ability to write. The bannings, in my opinion, are a totally legitimate action taken by the one person actually paying for the service of this forum (J). If you don't like how the ship is run, you can alway get your own (ala FNB) and we wish you the best.

    --CTGuy

    PS- Sysdoc, you absolutely made me laugh out loud while taking a break from studying for my final law school final today.
     


  12. horton

    horton Senior Member

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    Just for the record, I don't want to imply that this has been a result of over-moderation or anything bad on the part of the moderators or admin.

    Before Aportnoy and sysdoc it was Kabbaz (sp?) and I'm sure there have been others. So something is annoying these people about the dynamic. While it might be easy (and even correct) to just write it off and say it's their problem, it might also be true that it is deserving some attention and inquiry to see if a fix in the dynamics or rules could help.
     


  13. LabelKing

    LabelKing Stylish Dinosaur

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    It must have been the prolonged exposure to that Interchange, which unsettled us during the Crash.
     


  14. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt The Liberator Dubiously Honored

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    Just for the record, I don't want to imply that this has been a result of over-moderation or anything bad on the part of the moderators or admin.

    Before Aportnoy and sysdoc it was Kabbaz (sp?) and I'm sure there have been others. So something is annoying these people about the dynamic. While it might be easy (and even correct) to just write it off and say it's their problem, it might also be true that it is deserving some attention and inquiry to see if a fix in the dynamics or rules could help.


    I agree. The main reason to use this forum is to gain information. If something is going on where we lose THE most knowledgeable contributers, thn it should be addressed.

    As I said in the earlier thread, I really don't have an opinion about how Thomas' departure went down. I know him to be a bit feisty when questioned, but always fair and levelheaded in the long run. More importantly, he (and APortnoy, Alex, LK etc) are the reasons that I log in to get information. I do not log in to read the posturing of certain moderators. Think of it like a baseball game. You guys are the umpires, and if we notice you, you are not doing your job very well.
     


  15. Stu

    Stu Distinguished Member

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    Well, that was the practice until recently, when anytime someone got a timeout, there was a rash of "Whatever happened to X" and "What did he do to deserve a timeout! Injustice!" which is why there is the "Transpatent moderation" thread on the General forum now. Sigh...


    Human nature Fok. Kind of like when you are a kid in school and you see another kid in the principal's office or in detention, everyone wants to know what he did.
     


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