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A few specific black tie questions

anon311

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I'm in my mid-twenties and in a few months will attend the first of what will probably be a series of weddings. This one's "black tie optional," but I figure I might as well just bite the bullet now and assemble a reasonable black tie wardrobe to wear for the next few years. As a student I'm on a somewhat tight budget, but I've also bought enough $75 shoes that come unglued in 6 months that I realize that low-cost upfront doesn't always mean low-cost in the long run.

After reading a dozen or so pages of that long black tie thread and perusing www.blacktieguide.com, I have a few specific questions:

1) Bow tie: I'll buy a black self-tie and figure out how to tie it. What's a reasonable price to spend on one? http://www.blacktieguide.com/Buying/Buying_Retailers.htm says $27 as an example of an inexpensive one, does that sound reasonable? Any recommendations?

2) Shirt & Cummerbund: I'm lumping these two together because it seems that one may depend on the other. I like the look of bib-front more than pleated shirts. If I go with the former, does that tip the scale in favor of maybe skipping a cummerbund (which I would otherwise prefer over a waistcoat)? I've read on here that there seems to be some disagreement about the extent to which a waist covering is optional. If, as people seem to say, one is to keep a SB tuxedo buttoned the entire time, is omitting the waist covering still considered particularly improper? Either way, could you all recommend some shirts and cummerbunds and offer price points? I feel like, if anything, it makes sense to spend more on a well-fitting shirt and then cut back a bit on the cummerbund, if I must get it, since nobody will really see it.

3) Suspenders: If the pants don't sag, are these required? Even if I don't take my jacket off?

4) Shoes: Given my budget, it makes the most sense to get whatever's most versatile. Pumps are out, and patent leather probably is too. How about a plain toe calfskin shoe like this: http://www.shoebuy.com/allen-edmonds-kenilworth/481049/1017190 ? I've seen lots of people talking about buying shoes on eBay. Why aren't more people concerned about 1) authenticity and 2) the inability to return something that doesn't fit?

My goal for all of the above is to spend somewhere on the order of $500. Thankfully, I don't need to buy a jacket or pants because my dad gave me one of his and, somewhat miraculously, it fits very well.

Thanks all for your help! This forum is an awesome resource.
 

Veremund

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1. No reason that shouldn't be fine. Mine cost me about 30 euro.
2. Cummerbund doesn't need to be anything extravagant, but don't go without a waist covering.
3. If your pants fit perfectly, you don't need the suspenders. Do your pants fit perfectly?
4. Sure, those shoes will do you fine. Or you could go with the Park Aves
 

anon311

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Great, thanks for the advice. Any recommendations for stores where I might be able to pick up a bow tie, cummerbund +/- shirt?

Also, if I don't need any of this stuff until later in the fall, do you think it would be a good idea to wait for any labor day sales? I was planning to do that, but then when I spoke with a friend about this today she mentioned that tuxedos are often excluded from sales.
 

AlexE

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1) Price does not matter - just make sure that it is genuine silk
2) If you go with a traditional evening shirt, which are closed with studs, you will not get around a waist covering since only the top button holes are closed with studs whereas the lower ones with buttons. This will look ridiculous when you have to open the jacket to sit down (or do you plan on standing the whole time?). You could theoretically get away without waist covering if you wear a plain white shirt with with a covered placket (buttons are not visible), which is an alternative to the traditional evening shirts. However, even in the latter case I would wear a cummerbund / waistcoat.
3) There is no rule requiring suspenders. Make sure that the trousers have side adjusters.
4) Shoes are OK, but I would get oxfords rather than derbies, e.g. something like this http://www.crockettandjones.com/cdn/products/5590-12/main/1.jpg
 

anon311

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All makes sense, thanks. Becnal - sorry, I had meant a physical store rather than eBay, or at least somewhere where returns would be more straightforward.

Had to look up the difference between oxfords and derbies but I also prefer the former and think that they look more formal. Good call, thanks. What do you think about the AE Park Aves, or does the captoe kill it? I know that traditionally that's considered incorrect with formalwear, but since I'm going for something that's most versatile, maybe it's fine?

With shirts, I'm basically won over on a cummerbund. What surprises me, though, is that lots of shirts marketed as "tuxedo shirts" don't seem to require studs for the top button holes. Like this: http://www.jcrew.com/mens_special_shops/BlackTieShop/PRDOVR~22182/22182.jsp So basically you're making a white dress shirt with a turn-down collar, regular buttons, and French cuffs. That's starting to sound a lot like a plain white dress shirt with French cuffs, no?

Alex, is this the sort of covered placket shirt you're talking about: http://www.us.thomaspink.com/Marcel...ening-Shirts/thomas-pink/fcp-product/99920812 I like the idea of a subtle variation on the more traditional look, but it's a bummer that it doesn't come in slim or super slim fit (thereby obviating the otherwise small but existent possibility of not having to get it taken in).
 
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AlexE

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random-adam

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...I like the idea of a subtle variation on the more traditional look, but it's a bummer that it doesn't come in slim or super slim fit (thereby obviating the otherwise small but existent possibility of not having to get it taken in).


A few years back I purchased a shirt with a covered placket and truthfully I miss wearing studs to break up the expanse of white cloth; I'll be picking up a different shirt soon, likely from Cottonwork to make sure it's tall and slim enough. If you're of reasonably standard proportions and want a proper tuxedo shirt, I would suggest taking a look at Kent Wang.

For that matter his plaintoe balmorals would look fantastic with black tie also. Park Avenues work nearly as well -- they're what I use, and they'll be vastly better than the vinyl "patent" bluchers available at rental outfits. You'll want to spend significant time shining them with wax polish to pull it off right.
 

Veremund

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All makes sense, thanks. Becnal - sorry, I had meant a physical store rather than eBay, or at least somewhere where returns would be more straightforward.


That's a fair concern regarding buying the shirt online. There's no reason the bowtie or cummerbund would have to be returned though, so no worries buying them online.
 

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