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A Fascist Dandy

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by LabelKing, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. Nick M

    Nick M Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    Laid-back, unstructured chic, Tyrolean woodsman style.

    Oh, yeah, and it's Hitler.
     
  2. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    Do we not stop at some point and say "Damn your fine clothes and aesthetic sense, you're still a fascist and fought on the side of genocide and that makes you NOT worth admiring"?

    bob


    How can you say that D'Annunzio "fought on the side of genocide"? He died in 1936, as I recall. Even in the early years of the Nazi era, relations between the two dicatorships were by no means so cordial as they later became. As I recall, I think even Churchill was quite eager to play off Mussolini against Hitler. Even as late as 1940, the Anglo-French allies tried to keep Italy neutral during the war.

    Moreover, as I recall, it was the Fascist Grand Council that deposed Mussolini and sought peace with the allies in 1943. Italian Fascism may have been a bad business, but I fail to see how having supported it during the 1920s and 1930s makes one complicit in genocide, even posthumously.
     
  3. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Quite good points, JLibourel. Besides, d'Annunzio's brand of fascism was always quaint, bordering on quixotic romanticism, hence my comparison to Mad King Ludwig.

    Hitler was never a dandy.
     
  4. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    Quite good points, JLibourel. Besides, d'Annunzio's brand of fascism was always quaint, bordering on quixotic romanticism, hence my comparison to Mad King Ludwig.

    Hitler was never a dandy.


    although I agree with JL on the history, I think that this whole fascination with violence and warfare of the futurists contributed to the atmosphere that ended up with people killing their deaf children and sending their jewish neighbors to gas chambers. and frankly,I think that you could link ludwig to it, too.
     
  5. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    although I agree with JL on the history, I think that this whole fascination with violence and warfare of the futurists contributed to the atmosphere that ended up with people killing their deaf children and sending their jewish neighbors to gas chambers. and frankly,I think that you could link ludwig to it, too.
    Yes, I think that the end result had some of its foundationary elements in the Italian Futurist dogmas and such although it was really the Teutonic tradition that is to blame in a majority sense for the WWII genocides. King Ludwig is to blame partially because of that romantic highly Germanic Wagnerian aura that rose up after his arguably romantic death. The Germanic are notoriously sentimental. However, regarding the original poster and his point of d'Annunzio, I don't think it's entirely correct to point the blame on people like him for the excesses of fascism. Nobody tends to entirely villianize Stalin yet Hannah Arendt notes that Hitler and Stalin were exactly of the same material.
     
  6. Nick M

    Nick M Senior member

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    Nobody tends to entirely villianize Stalin
    You what?! Nobody?!
     
  7. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    You what?! Nobody?!
    The reaction when talking positively about Hitler and talking positively about Stalin is entirely different.
     
  8. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Also your question about the Spanish Royal Family is that the portrait shows the impotent King Charles IV painted in an idiotic light while the real power behind the throne was the equally unattractively painted Queen Maria Luisa.

    I think there is something there, a honey in that lion.
     
  9. Nick M

    Nick M Senior member

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    The reaction when talking positively about Hitler and talking positively about Stalin is entirely different.
    Who do you associate with that talks positively about Hitler and positively about Stalin?
     
  10. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    Hitler and Stalin are regarded very differently. Speaking positively of the former may land one in prison for a considerable length of time in many countries.
     
  11. Nick M

    Nick M Senior member

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    Hitler and Stalin are regarded very different.
    In the 'both killed millions of people' sense?

    That's not what I'm disputing - I'm disputing LK's assertion that no-one villainizes Stalin. And my question was, who do you associate with that speaks of these men positively?





    And now I'm orf t'work!
     
  12. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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  13. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    Relative to Hitler, it's not far from the truth. Both are among the worst human beings to have ever lived. But it's not like they never accomplished or said anything good. Yet I'm much more able to say so about Stalin than I am about Hitler.
     
  14. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    In the 'both killed millions of people' sense? That's not what I'm disputing - I'm disputing LK's assertion that no-one villainizes Stalin. And my question was, who do you associate with that speaks of these men positively? And now I'm orf t'work!
    I'm not saying nobody villianizes Stalin; rather, that when people discuss Stalin the relative context is different than when discussing Hitler. The latter inevitabley is (almost) always negative while the former is more or less. Of course, I don't hang about Neo-Nazis and such but there are people who would want a Stalin like figure back in Russia as there some people who want a Hitler type figure. Yet the negative aspects almost always lies with the Hitler pact while Stalinists are regarded as nostaglic or some other mawkish sentiment. Then one can also bring into discussion Mao who is another one of those curiously canonized figures of the 20th century.
     
  15. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

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    I have heard that the Muslim Brotherhood are now 'carrying the torch' for fascism, or its equivalent. i wonder if any of them are dandies?

    i'm guessing they don't share d'annunzio's sense of hedonistic spectacle, anyway.
     
  16. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Relative to Hitler, it's not far from the truth. Both are among the worst human beings to have ever lived. But it's not like they never accomplished or said anything good. Yet I'm much more able to say so about Stalin than I am about Hitler.
    How so?
     
  17. Nick M

    Nick M Senior member

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    LK - Of course, your point is valid. But simply to avoid confusion and unnecessary back-and-forth, if you think

    I'm not saying nobody villianizes Stalin
    then please don't say

    Nobody tends to entirely villianize Stalin
    Befuddles my poor brain.
     
  18. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    I have heard that the Muslim Brotherhood are now 'carrying the torch' for fascism, or its equivalent. i wonder if any of them are dandies?

    i'm guessing they don't share d'annunzio's sense of hedonistic spectacle, anyway.


    I don't think that they are all that into dress and grooming. although, I ahve to say that some men in the arab world are fanatical about the quality of theiir dress - you see some guys who change those white robes twice a day to keep themselves crisp. and some Arab men wear a type of cape in the winter - I have seen those in beutiful cashmere and lined in dessert cat fur.
     
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  19. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    I don't think that they are all that into dress and grooming. although, I ahve to say that some men in the arab world are fanatical about the quality of theiir dress - you see some guys who change those white robes twice a day to keep themselves crisp. and some Arab men wear a type of cape in the winter - I have seen those in beutiful cashmere and lined in dessert cat fur.

    It's what you don't see--the suit underneath.
     
  20. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    It's what you don't see--the suit underneath.


    serious? I dont know about you, but I honestly don't think that most of the gulf arabs I know wore anyting under their dish-dash. but I never really felt like checking....
     

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