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6 pack

Discussion in 'Health & Body' started by Impulse155, Mar 11, 2006.

  1. kever

    kever Senior member

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    Doing sufficient lower intensity cadio in your target heart rate and eating properly will help you get a six pack. You have to consistently burn more claories then you eat. Things like caffiene and ephedra will help a bit, but its still all about eating less then you burn.


    If you guys want to get in better shape, I'd suggest going out and buying a book like "The book of Muscle" by Ian King and Lou Schuler. It will give you a good idea of how your muscle fibers work, a bit about nutrition, descriptions and pictures of every exercise, and a year and a half of workouts.
     
  2. teddieriley

    teddieriley Senior member

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    Wait, you smell that?
    I don't know if this has been suggested already (considering I don't want to go through 5 pages of posts), but in addition to weight training (which builds the muscles that are more efficient at burning calories while you're resting/sleeping than cardio ever will), you need to eat 6 times a day. 6 small meals a day, and this includes protein shakes. For example, a "meal" in between breakfast, lunch, and dinner, can either be a protein shake, or a peanut butter sandwich with milk, or almonds and apple slices. But the bottom line is that you have to keep your caloric intake relatively low, while "grazing" throughout the day. This also helps you from pigging out at any given meal (especially dinner). I would also suggest keeping the carbs to a minimum at dinner.

    Mix and match the weight training and cardio, but fix your diet.

    Try picking up the "Abs Diet" book by the editor of Men's Health - there's a big fat version and a smaller pocket version available. The pocket version is sufficient in educating you how to eat properly. 70% of you getting that six pack is your diet, in addition to good genetics.
     
  3. nairb49

    nairb49 Senior member

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    IMO, though it is certainly easier said than done, moderation is the key.
    I'm sure its been said before, but I'm a bit lazy to search previous pages.

    I used to be crazy in terms of working out. A typical day would be:
    Up at 6-cardio for 45min on crosstrainer. Swim: 200m warmup, 5x400m on 1:30/100, 400m cool-down.
    Work 9-4, which was walking all day (Basically, door to door informing residents about recycling programs, not glamorous I know, but how else am I going to get my denim?)
    Post work, 1.5h squash, 1.5 tennis, 45minutes weight session

    Breakfast: oatmeal, protein shake+Greensplus
    Lunch: Sandwich, carrot sticks
    Dinner: meat dish+pasta/rice

    Granted, I was in great cardiovascular shape. Now, that said, currently my schedule is much much looser. That lifestyle just isn't sustainable, six-pack or not.
    In terms of definition, I still have the abs, but now 5x week squash, 5x week weights and just trying to eat "balanced" but not obsessive, and I find this is a routine I could be doing for the rest of my life as opposed to burning out.

    So I suppose what I'm trying to say with all this is, take it slow so that you can keep it up long term. I'd say about 98% of people start off crazy fast, and lose sight of their goal, or get frustrated and give up. Its all about starting something you can stay with. You'll get there eventually.
     
  4. Impulse155

    Impulse155 Senior member

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    down 16 lbs altogether, 14 more to go :p
     
  5. sartorially senseless

    sartorially senseless Senior member

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    I disagree from experience. Im the same way as Arethusa. My body fat fluctuates between 6.5 and 8% and I'm not very ripped.

    i really dont want to come off as harsh, but this comment is ludacris. only 2 things can render this accurate, what you consider ripped and how you are measuring.

    if your definition is anything like the "norm", then sub 10% is plenty ripped. 99% of the people out there dont actually know what their body fat is and tend to underestimate it. if you are claiming even 8% body fat and you dont have a full 6 pack with the possibilyt of veins in your stomach, then there is no other way to say it, but you are wrong in regards to your measurement.

    i suggest you take a look at some bodybuilding boards, particularly their "memebers pictures" section, there are a variety of pics that will help you more accurately judge if you are truely sub 10%.

    please dont forget that most people in the sport of bodybuidling show at around 4.5 to 6.5 percent, and this is only maintainable for the period of that day.
     
  6. sartorially senseless

    sartorially senseless Senior member

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    another thing that i noticed just glancing at these posts: you guys aren't eating enough. i know it sounds counter intuitive but you still have to eat to lose weight consistently.

    for a rough guideline, try taking your body weight and mulitplying it by 12. that is how many calories you should be taking in..again this is rough. for a slighlty more accurate way, use the harris-bennedict formula, and for the most accurate way, go to the hospital and blow into some c02 measuring system (i think they use it to see how many calories to feed those who cant feed themselves, ie brain trama, coma, etc)

    but you have to eat to lose fat.

    some people have made some great suggestions, eat 6-8 smaller meals instead of 3 large ones. dont forget weight training, number studies suggest the combination of weight training and cardio burned more fat, perserved and allowed some to gain more muscle, than cardio for the time period alone. the benefits are much greater. if people are interested, i can pull some articles from some of the bodybuidling forums i frequent to get a better template on diet
     
  7. seoulfully

    seoulfully Senior member

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    Sartorially Senseless, i've been randomly following this thread. and it hasn't really provided much info beyond what i already know. and i've got a fair sense of what kinds of things you are talking about, but could you post some of those dietary guidelines you'd mentioned. thanks!
     
  8. Mark_Y

    Mark_Y Senior member

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    Mar 19, 2006
    i really dont want to come off as harsh, but this comment is ludacris. only 2 things can render this accurate, what you consider ripped and how you are measuring.

    if your definition is anything like the "norm", then sub 10% is plenty ripped. 99% of the people out there dont actually know what their body fat is and tend to underestimate it. if you are claiming even 8% body fat and you dont have a full 6 pack with the possibilyt of veins in your stomach, then there is no other way to say it, but you are wrong in regards to your measurement.

    i suggest you take a look at some bodybuilding boards, particularly their "memebers pictures" section, there are a variety of pics that will help you more accurately judge if you are truely sub 10%.

    please dont forget that most people in the sport of bodybuidling show at around 4.5 to 6.5 percent, and this is only maintainable for the period of that day.


    I completely agree. Nobody maintains a bodyfat at 6.5%. Even to maintain a bodyfat of 8% requires a super clean diet in addition to a great workout program.

    Anyone that has a bodyfat rating of 6.5% is "ripped" by any definition of the word, unless they're on the brink of death.
     
  9. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    If I remember correctly, Michael Jordan had a body fat percentage of 4%. African-Americans are often more cut.
     
  10. Mark_Y

    Mark_Y Senior member

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    If I remember correctly, Michael Jordan had a body fat percentage of 4%. African-Americans are often more cut.

    I think you're remembering incorrectly. No way did Michael Jordan ever play basketball with a bodyfat of 4%. He'd keel over from the running. Some competition bodybuilders can get down that low for a stage show but they can't maintain it for more than a few hours.
     
  11. whoopee

    whoopee Senior member

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    No I just checked on google and a variety of sources all confirm my memory. Of course, no doubt he is an aberration (in so many ways), but he certainly is somebody.
     
  12. sartorially senseless

    sartorially senseless Senior member

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    No I just checked on google and a variety of sources all confirm my memory. Of course, no doubt he is an aberration (in so many ways), but he certainly is somebody.

    i think i found the site you were referring to: The average American male's percentage of body fat is 15-20%. The average professional athlete's is 7-8%. Jordan's body fat was measured at 4%.

    i can tell you, jordan may have been measured at 4% using whatever techniques were avaible when this article was written, but keep in mind, the margin of error is probably in the 3% range
     
  13. sartorially senseless

    sartorially senseless Senior member

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    Sartorially Senseless, i've been randomly following this thread. and it hasn't really provided much info beyond what i already know. and i've got a fair sense of what kinds of things you are talking about, but could you post some of those dietary guidelines you'd mentioned. thanks!

    This is a great article that I used when I first started getting serious about nutrition. I did not write this, and do not take credit for it, but i should be able to answer any questions or concerns you have about it.

    The Cutting Primer
    By: rambo @anabolicreview.com

    It's about time we had a decent full length post on cutting...

    Let's get a few things straight...
    1. All of the insights I'm about to provide are not person-specific. What that means is that it is a general guideline, not a bible.
    2. I truly do believe that bodybuilding is 80% diet. You can lift your ass off daily, and still look horrible if you aren't eating right.
    3. You are what you eat. It's just that simple.

    The BASICS-
    1.Postworkout Nutrition- I'm a firm believer that PWO nutrition is hands down the most important aspect of dieting. It is within the 15 minutes after a workout that your body is in dire need of nutrients. It is a completely anabolic state, and what you take in can be optimized to ensure maximum results. A general rule of thumb is 40-60 grams whey protein, and double the amount of whey in carbohydrates (50% dextrose/50% maltodextrin).

    2. Carbs- You are damn right, carbs. In a strict cutting diet the majority of your carbs should come in the form of PWO nutrition, and the remainder in breakfast. Fibrous veggies are a staple, but keep in mind that they don't count towards intake, as they have negligible impacts on blood sugar levels. (Exceptions: Carrots, Peas) All high glycemic carbs outside of PWO should be avoided. The best sources of low GI carbs can be found in oatmeal and brown rice, as well as yams.

    3. Protein- You need tons. 1.5-2.0 grams per pound of lean bodyweight is a good general rule of thumb. You should take in a good portion of your protein in the source of real meals, avoid intaking too many shakes, as real food comes to a better benefit. The list foods with high protein bioavailability is extensive, and I will only cover a few, (Egg whites, Lean steak, Chicken breast, the list goes on forever....).

    4. Fats- Guess what? You need fat to lose fat. We are talking about the granddaddy of fats, the EFA (Essential Fatty Acid). Good sources of fat are ( Flax Oil, Nuts, Salmon, Olive Oil).

    5. The separation of Carbs and Fats- This is a hotly debated issue, but again, in my opinion, an important aspect nonetheless. Remember that it is often when you eat items and with what you eat them that is more important than what you are eating. A mouthful, I know, but stay with me. Remember that when you take in certain carbs, you can spike your insulin levels. If you are taking in fats when your insulin has been spiked, you are allowing the basic laws of physiology to act out, and you allow for a higher propensity for fat storage. Separation is key. The sample diet will give a good example of how to separate them.

    6. Supplements-

    Glutamine: Helps prevent catabolism when cutting. Best used in dosages of 10grams daily, 5 grams before cardio, 5 grams at another interval, but not after workout as it fights for absorption with the glutamine peptides in whey.
    ALA/R-ALA: Gets my supplement of the day award. R-ala is effective in lowering the spike of insulin when certain carbs are consumed. I could give you a dissertation on the stereoentisomeric properties of the R, but all you need to know is that it has been found to shuttle carbohydrates away from adipose and into myocytes. Translation: Away from fat cells, into muscle cells. It's a supplement, however, not a miracle worker. It's not a crutch, and won't do anything about fat intake. ala and R-ala can also aid in the expedition of the ketogenic state. Remember that if you buy R-ala that you supplement it with Biotin. Glucorell-R is prepackaged with it. If you can afford it, go for it. As far as dosage, with the R, you are looking at 1-2 pills of Glucorell R for each 30-40grams of carb intake.
    Protein and Carb Shakes: I'm not going to cover protein, because even if you can't afford it, you should sell a kidney to get some. Carb drinks are rather convenient, and companies offer pre mixed dosages, (CarboHit, Glycoload, UltraFuel). Dextrose and Maltodextrin can be bought from most supplement stores or online.

    7. Cheating- Cheating is essential. Why? Remember, the body runs on homeostasis, it likes to keep balance. After eating so well after a week, your body begins to adjust, and fat loss over time will not be as rapid. The other extremely important aspect is mental sanity. So many diets crash and fail because people don't give themselves a chance to breath. Remember, cheating is not an opportunity for you to pillage the entire mall food court. Shoot for a cheat meal, not an all out binge. A fast food value meal can be 2,000 calories. Eat that 3 times on one day, and you've consumed 6,000 calories. And that's not good in any case.

    8. Cardio- Cardio and cutting usually go hand in hand. I won't go into specifics about length, other than cardio shouldn't be excessive. 45 minutes to one hour daily should be sufficient, and should be performed on an empty stomach.

    Sample Diet:
    Note: This is a sample diet for a 200 pound gentleman who is wishing to cut. We can assume his BF to be around 15%. This diet will NOT work for you if those criteria don't apply to you; however it is easy to customize the below diet to take in account your own statistics. It is the principles that are applicable.. I am not going to post the total amount of calories, only the carb, protein and fat macros for the whole day.

    Meal 1:
    Lean Protein, 1/2 cup oatmeal

    Meal 2:
    Protein shake/Lean Protein (2 tbsp flax

    Meal 3:
    Veggies, Lean Protein

    Workout

    Meal 4:
    PWO Nutrition

    Meal 5:
    Veggies, Lean Protein, 1/2 cup rice or oatmeal.

    Meal 6:
    Shake with Flax

    That turns into approximately 300 grams protein, 130 grams Carbs, and 50 grams of fat.

    *Reminder: This is a PRIMER. It's not mean to be comprehensive.

    Here comes the fun part: Question and Answer....

    Q: What about dairy?
    A: If you don't mind a soft look, fat free cottage cheese is an excellent caseinate source, but as for milks- way too much processed sugar. NO.

    Q: Should I do a keto diet?
    A: Unless you are morbidly obese, or would like to drag your wilted muscles behind you, stay away from keto. Again, that's my opinion. You can see my previous posts for my anti-keto ranting.

    Q: What about cycling carb intake?
    A: Obviously on non workout days you will be without a shake, so you will be auto-cycling. It works well that way.

    Q: Is sodium an issue?
    A: Outside of the bloating issue, or if you have high cholesterol, no.

    Q. How do I make my meals not taste like cardboard?
    A. Be creative. Mix in some sugar free jam or splenda in your oats, some hot sauce or soy sauce on your meats, or pick up some sugar free ketchup.

    Q. I don't like old fashioned oats. Can I eat the pre mixed oats with fruit?
    A. No. Be a man. Those mixes have ridiculous amounts of sugar.

    Q. What about fruit?
    A: Fruit replenishes glycogen stores in the liver, and in my opinion, is not to be a staple of a strict cutting diet, with a few exceptions.

    Q: Can I eat steak while cutting?
    A: Definitely. Make sure it's a leaner cut.

    And with this post I take a sabbatical. I'd like to thank ~Swolecat~ for his influence, and to thank all of you who may have indirectly annoyed me enough to result in this elongated post. If I missed anything, or am horribly wrong on anything, feel free to PM me, and I will edit it in. Best of luck, and remember...

    "Obsessed is a the word that lazy people use for dedicated."

    Happy Holidays,

    Rambo
     
  14. sartorially senseless

    sartorially senseless Senior member

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    This is what i am personally going to be starting monday. since summer is coming, i have about 8 weeks to drop some weight that i gained while being injured/lazy for the past 5 months (mostly injured)

    6am - cardio

    Meal 1 - 7:00am - 2 eggs + 4 egg whites / 1 packet oatmeal

    Meal 2 - 9:30am - whey protein shake / flax oil caps or peanuts/almonds/walnuts

    Meal 3 - 12:30pm - lunch (chicken salad, chicken + rice, chicken on wholegrain bread)

    Meal 4 - 3:30pm - whey protein shake / flax oil caps or peanuts/almonds/walnuts

    Meal 5 - 6:00pm - chicken or steak + rice or potatoes

    Training - 7:45pm

    Meal 6 - 9:00pm - PWO

    Bedtime - 10:00pm

    Multivitamin\t
    Water 3-4L a day

    Now this is NOT ideal, as most people would prefer to have 1 solid meal after training. My schedule does not allow for this, so I do the best I can.
     
  15. Impulse155

    Impulse155 Senior member

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    well its been about 1 1/2 months and well... im on my way original weight is 206 and currently am down to 189 lbs thx for all ur help, will post again in a few more weeks what my wait is.

    Net loss------ 17 lbs
     
  16. nairb49

    nairb49 Senior member

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    i think i found the site you were referring to: The average American male's percentage of body fat is 15-20%. The average professional athlete's is 7-8%. Jordan's body fat was measured at 4%. i can tell you, jordan may have been measured at 4% using whatever techniques were avaible when this article was written, but keep in mind, the margin of error is probably in the 3% range
    I think a common source of disparagement lies with exactly this problem. MOST people when they measure bodyfat use one of those instant scales, handheld monitors, which upon personal use I believe to exclude basal levels of adipose tissue necessary for survival. No doubt this is where the quoted 4% came from, I myself have been down to 4% on these various monitors and I would say that yes, I'd consider myself as having the same definition as Jordan in some pics I've seen, but 4% is not accurate. Though I've never had it professionally monitored via calorimetry in a giant water tank (which is the most accurate way since it doesn't rely on adipose conductance, which is actually quite variable) I'm still quite sure that 4% is not right. As an experiment, measure your bodyfat with one of those handheld sensors, then do 10 jumping jacks and measure it again. You'll find that those jumping jacks have miraculously trimmed a percent or two. You can imagine the difficulty on relying on those types of measurements now...
     
  17. alflauren

    alflauren Senior member

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    I disagree from experience. Im the same way as Arethusa. My body fat fluctuates between 6.5 and 8% and I'm not very ripped.

    Ditto. I'm at about 9-10% and am very trim, but don't have a lot of definition. And it's not from lack of trying either. I nearly had a 6-pack at one point, but the "maintenance" on it was so insane that I gave it up pretty quickly. I'm still trim, and I can lead a normal life that doesn't revolve around special menus and excessive exercise.
     
  18. colin_

    colin_ Senior member

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    as sartorially senseless has stated, how are you guys measuring this body fat? Nobody is just "naturally" 6-8% bodyfat. Honestly you will looked pretty ripped up. You can't rely on those crazy electron handheld devices or the super extreme futuristic scales. The closest practical means would be a body calipers and even then measurements aren't that accurate. I agree that many people here think they are much lower than they actually are.
     
  19. sartorially senseless

    sartorially senseless Senior member

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    before those scales are completely regarded as garbage, i find they can be semi-useful for tracking progress. say you are measured at 16% at 200 pounds but then 2 weeks later you are 14% at 195%...with a little math you can find out what you actually lost in fat and gained in muscle in a relative sense.

    with all bf measuring you should take it with a grain fo salt. for the most accurate type, id head to your local university and get some hydrostatic (i think thats the name). its basically where they submerge you in water...that is the most accurate

    anyways, this has now been beated to death

    for all you that think you are sub 10 without a 6 pack, get a clue. good day
     
  20. Oltmann

    Oltmann Senior member

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    for all you that think you are sub 10 without a 6 pack, get a clue. good day

    I agree 100%, but this is a very common misconception. The body fat measuring techniques suck, only autopsy is accurate.

    If you want to track your body composition, just get some body fat calipers and record your actual skinfold measurements (in mm, not %) over time. Forget about what your actual total body fat is. It is irrelevant and impossible to know for sure, just something to brag about.
     

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