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500 Greatest Albums

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by bachbeet, Jun 4, 2005.

  1. nightowl6261a

    nightowl6261a Senior member

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    As to Ringo, I give him credit for being a better than average drummer at the time, however, the biggest credit I think he deserves is for being smart, the least talented of the Fab Four, and yet at times during their haydays, the least critiqued in terms of his talent. He seemed overshadowed by Paul and John and a good thing, but in the end, for a while anyway, he ended up with the one thing that really mattered, the babe. How did he do that?
     


  2. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Senior member

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    Interesting how different, and yet so similar, different lists of the "greatest albums" are. Here's the top 20 from VH-1's list:

    1. Beatles: Revolver
    2. Nirvana: Nevermind
    3. Beach Boys: Pet Sounds
    4. Marvin Gaye: What's Going On
    5. Jimi Hendrix Experience: Are You Experienced?
    6. Beatles: Rubber Soul
    7. Stevie Wonder: Songs in the Key of Life
    8. Beatles: Abbey Road
    9. Bob Dylan: Blonde on Blonde
    10. Beatles: Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
    11. Beatles: Beatles
    12. Rolling Stones: Exile on Main Street
    13. The Who: Who's Next
    14. Joni Mitchell: Blue
    15. U2: The Joshua Tree
    16. Fleetwood Mac: Rumours
    17. Sex Pistols: Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols
    18. Prince & the Revolution: Purple Rain
    19. Velvet Underground: Velvet Underground and Nico
    20. Public Enemy: It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back

    VH-1 leaves out of its top 20 Elvis, Highway 61, Jocko, London Calling, Springsteen and Blood on the Tracks; while adding Songs in the Key of Life, Who's Next, Joni Mitchell's Blue, Joshua Tree, Rumours, Sex Pistols, Purple Rain and Public Enemy. All the VH-1 omissions are in the next ten down their list except for Astral Weeks, which is at 40.

    I think comparing the two lists accurately reflects Rolling Stone's older slant on things.

    And I think Revolver is twice the album that Sgt. Pepper is. And Pet Sounds is a helluva effort.
     


  3. Stu

    Stu Senior member

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    Bachbeet: I think those lists tend to rate albums, not just on musical greatness, but on social impact and other things as well. Saturday Night Fever, in particular, is a piece of crap IMO. But I understand its importance, because it was the symbol of an era, an archelogical relic as it were, just as "All in the Family" is a microsim of the social and political mileau of the early '70s.

    I think that's why Never Mind the Bollocks, the Sex Pistols' album, is always rated so high. It marked a major transitional moment culturally, musically and politically, both in Britian and the U.S. I mean musically it employed all of, what, 3 chords?
     


  4. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

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    I would have put Modern Lovers in the top 10, Can and Sonic Youth as well.. but, this is Rolling Stone.. so..

    Pet Sounds is 100x better than anything the Beatles could ever do. I might have put it at #1 (VU / Nico would have been #3, the Stooges S/T #2)
     


  5. bachbeet

    bachbeet Senior member

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    BrianSD WROTE: "Pet Sounds is 100x better than anything the Beatles could ever do."

    Funny, since Brian Wilson himself said that Pepper and others by the Beatles were his inspirations for Pet Sounds.

    I guess we just disagree on this. In any event, the Beatles definitely helped to change Rock forever by adding more poetry and more musical variations.

    Of course, that doesn't nullify the movement to return to simpler songs as exemplified by the Clash (love 'em.) et al. Of course, it wasn't a total return as the Clash were lyrically innovative and musically great too. They simply reinvigorated rock with a return to some rawness. But updated rawness.
     


  6. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Senior member

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    it's a stupid list:

    1) every album is in english
    2) it doesn't mention what category of music it refers to. if robert johnson fits the category, he should be #1, otherwise leave him off the list.
    3) the cure and depeche mode are not there. (2 real pioneers who were not influenced by the pop music of their time.)
    4) it's a popularity contest (for american baby boomers), and at the same time they throw in some less popular albums (like robert johnson) to make it look more academic/historical. does it say anywhere what the criteria were for the rankings?
     


  7. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Senior member

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    Actually Brian Wilson said bettering the Beatles' Rubber Soul was his inspiration for Pet Sounds.
     


  8. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

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    I see nothing wrong with the inspired album being better than its inspirations. If this logic holds true, you can't give credit to the Clash, who completely ripped off the Ramones.
     


  9. bachbeet

    bachbeet Senior member

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    BrianSD wrote: "I see nothing wrong with the inspired album being better than its inspirations. If this logic holds true, you can't give credit to the Clash, who completely ripped off the Ramones."

    Well, sometimes the inspired one does pull off a better product. Not often and certainly not in the Pet Sounds case.

    As for the Ramones/Clash, I just don't see the similarities. The Clash >>>>>>> Ramones.

    So, even though we agree that SD is a great place to live, we disagree about these subjects. We agree that VU/Reed did some good stuff. I just don't think as highly of them as you do (#3?.). "HeeeeeeroIN ..."
     


  10. bachbeet

    bachbeet Senior member

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    More great stuff in the next 100:

    203. Wheels of Fire, Cream
    205. Abraxas, Santana
    208. Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere, Neil Young With Crazy Horse

    209. Wish You Were Here, Pink Floyd
    211. Tattoo You, The Rolling Stones
    221. War, U2
    234. The Ultimate Collection, Patsy Cline
    238. Can't Buy a Thrill, Steely Dan (yet another I like more than Pet Sounds)
    247. Automatic for the People, R.E.M.
    250. The River, Bruce Springsteen
    258. American Beauty, Grateful Dead
    262. Workingman's Dead, Grateful Dead (I've found these last two are very mellowing when in heavy traffic)
    264. Child Is Father to the Man, Blood, Sweat and Tears (great blues/jazz/rock)
    268. Psycho Candy, The Jesus and Mary Chain
    282. The Cars, The Cars
     


  11. PhiloVance

    PhiloVance Senior member

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    Had to chime in on this one. How can George Harrison's All Things Must Pass be 437? The guy put 10 years worth of songs that Paul and John wouldn't put on Beatles's albums onto 3 records. Two full records of absolutely incredible stuff, with an additional record of jam sessions including eric clapton, his dominos, assorted beatles, and the stones horn section.

    Also, not to go nuts with this, but Delaney & Bonnie should have at least one album on here. There original back-up band reads like a who's who of '70's session men. As Delaney Bramlett half-jokingly points out repeatedly, his band was constantly pilfered by Clapton, Harrison, the Stones, & Joe Cocker. It seems to me you'd have to consider them somewhat influential to the whole '70's sound.

    Other than that, I enjoyed reading everyone's comments :) For the ongoing Beach Boys-Beatles discussion, Paul McCartney said the greatest song ever written was God Only Knows.
     


  12. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

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    Not in London Calling and their later stuff, but if you listen to the really early Clash (especially live performances), you would seriously think they were a Ramones cover band. There are even interviews with Ramones members, particularly Johnny, where they're asked "what do you think about new bands like the Clash that are selling more records using your style of music?"

    And I agree, the Clash > The Ramones, but they still ripped them off. That's my point, that the influencee can easily surpass the influencer.

    Sgt. Pepper's is a solid album, and I guess it deserves credit for being very important to its generation. But NOTHING beats Pet Sounds, I can't even describe particular aspects of it that I really like, I just listen to it and am thinking "genius" every second.

    As for VU, their music doesn't have the same affect now unless the situation is understood. No one sung about the same kind of shit Lou Reed did and 95% of punk rock and indie bands after him are influenced incredibly. Not to mention other aspects of John Cale, the poets, Warhol and Nico being integral parts of the birth of punk, so to speak. The only person I credit as much as VU would be Iggy Pop and maybe the MC5 (who brought Iggy Pop to New York in the first place).

    Would I rather listen to VU/Nico, or say, an album under its influence such as Daydream Nation? Daydream Nation, no doubt, but the top 5 spots belong to the originals. I think the best album ever made is the Soft Bulletin but it wouldn't be in my top 5 for "greatest albums."
     


  13. bachbeet

    bachbeet Senior member

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    Philo: I think the method for selection was to ask numerous different people to list their favorite albums and rank them (don't know if they asked for 10 from each one or what). Then they compiled them and weighted them, etc and came up with the list. So, I guess the answer to your question about Harrison's album is that not enough had it on their lists.

    I love parts of that album but don't share your love for the whole album. Also liked what he did on his solo stuff from the late 80s and with the Wilburys (that one must be on the list somewhere).
     


  14. PhiloVance

    PhiloVance Senior member

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    Thanks for the methodology . . . Its all in fun. I thought it was interesting when looking at the list that they had probably the two most famous 3-record sets (Harrison's and the Clash's Sandanista; if there are any others, please let me know) within about 35 albums of each other. The first thing I thought was, I can't really think of anything I'd pull off of Harrison's album (well, maybe the instrumental jams), while I think Sandanista could have been condensed into one amazing record . . . well, it's all subjective anyway :) . . . Thanks for listening to my rant.
     


  15. petescolari

    petescolari Senior member

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I saw one Roy Orbison album in that list. Not even one? I was thinking after the Wilbury's were mentioned.
     


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