$30k on wedding attire

[mhip]

and the Groomsmen lower quality Seikos or higher end G-Shocks.

Shut it!!!
I'm in his wedding.

 

[ter1413]

Shut it!!!
I'm in his wedding.

Post of the week!

 

[Fognozzle]

Those are nice watches but are you going to get 5 groomsmen each a Grand Seiko. Personally the Groom should buy himself a Grand Seiko and the Groomsmen lower quality Seikos or higher end G-Shocks.

It sounds like the OP may have the budget to get his groomsmen something decent like Nomos, alternatively there are some excellent small brands that are known to punch well above their weight - Monta being an obvious example. I'm not sure what is achieved by buying them everyday affordables like Seiko, it almost says 'you probably don't actually own a watch, here put this on so you don't look like a bum'. I'm guessing the gents in the OP's circle probably already own a nice watch or two.

As for G-shocks, I'm not sure where that came from, but unless the wedding is beng held at a paintball arena I'd have to say they are a poor choice.

 

[ValidusLA]

I got my groomsmen their tuxes, and I thought I had done ok, man.

One thing not clear: Is the wedding black tie? Are you looking to have tuxedo made or a suit? This will also influence shoes.

If you are wearing a tuxedo, as mentioned above theoretically a watch is not really black tie. Everyone wears them, and the advice to avoid metal bracelet is good. I would go further and say a tank or reverso are also not optimal.

I love the JLC Reverso. Amazing watch. Beautiful. But its heritage is really as sort of the original "sport watch." A small diameter dress watch on a reptile or calf band in black would be more appropriate with a tuxedo, in my opinion.

 

[TexasToast]

It sounds like the OP may have the budget to get his groomsmen something decent like Nomos, alternatively there are some excellent small brands that are known to punch well above their weight - Monta being an obvious example. I'm not sure what is achieved by buying them everyday affordables like Seiko, it almost says 'you probably don't actually own a watch, here put this on so you don't look like a bum'. I'm guessing the gents in the OP's circle probably already own a nice watch or two.

As for G-shocks, I'm not sure where that came from, but unless the wedding is beng held at a paintball arena I'd have to say they are a poor choice.

Hey if the OP has the money to roll like that god speed if he doesn't there are options. Excuse me while I hide my affordable Seiko, I own a nice collection of affordable Seikos and G-Shocks and very proud of them.

Based on your response you my friend have never looked at a G-Shock. G-Shock has watches that cost $100 up to $70k yes that's $70,000 USD. if you don't believe me I've left a link for you to chew on.https://world.g-shock.com/asia-mea/en/products/origin/gold/g-d5000/

I said that he could get his Groomsmen a lower priced Seiko or G-Shock in relation to a Grand Seiko which are $59k and up, So there's a lot of room for a "lower" priced Seiko or G-Shock.

 

[ValidusLA]

I said that he could get his Groomsmen a lower priced Seiko or G-Shock in relation to a Grand Seiko which are $59k and up, So there's a lot of room for a "lower" priced Seiko or G-Shock.

You can get a Grand Seiko much cheaper than $59k. Not sure where you are getting that pricing impression.

 

[TexasToast]

You can get a Grand Seiko much cheaper than $59k. Not sure where you are getting that pricing impression.
View attachment 1712818

I dont get your point I never said there arent lower priced GS watches.

 

[ValidusLA]

in relation to a Grand Seiko which are $59k and up

Your wording is confusing. You mention it above, worded as a minimum ("and up"), and I don't see anyone else mentioning that price.

 

[TexasToast]

Your wording is confusing. You mention it above, worded as a minimum ("and up"), and I don't see anyone else mentioning that price.

I mentioned it because I was telling fognozzle that decent "lower" priced watch can be had that are "affordable"

 

[ValidusLA]

I mentioned it because I was telling fognozzle that decent "lower" priced watch can be had that are "affordable"

$59k is the breakpoint you choose for affordability?

10x the price of a Moonwatch?

This whole line of thought makes no sense.

 

[TexasToast]

$59k is the breakpoint you choose for affordability?

10x the price of a Moonwatch?

This whole line of thought makes no sense.

Ok?

 

[Verve]

2) There's a shop in Costa Mesa, California called Divij Bespoke. They travel throughout the US and often to many more cities than the people listed above. I don't know if they hit Arizona, but you may want to contact them. From what I've seen, their house style is a little more padded than Solito or I Sarti, but I've heard they're flexible.

I just saw Divij in Phoenix, AZ in October, and he should be back in January or February. He is extremely knowledgeable.

DWW just gave you plenty of options though. ?

 

[Chadclass]

That's a pretty big drop. In tailoring, the term drop refers to the difference in measurement between the chest size and waist size. Most suits are made for guys with a six inch drop. So if they have a 38 chest, their waist measure 32. As you increase the drop, other things change, such as how the coat fits around the waist. It would not be enough to just wear a size 40 jacket and 28 pant (which would measure 30 around the waist). You may find that, if you were to go with off-the-rack clothes, it will take you about as much time to find a half-decent suit as it would if you just traveled for fittings. And the results may not be as good.

There are two options for custom tailoring. The first is made-to-measure and the second is bespoke. Made to measure is built off a block pattern, which is the standard pattern for the company that's later adjusted using a client's measurements. If you go with a made-to-measure company, you will only need to travel once, maybe twice, to see the company. This process is much better if you can find a company with sample garments -- garments that are already made to the company's block pattern. This way, you and the fitter can see what needs to be changed. As importantly, you can judge whether you like the suit's silhouette on you. Suits can be made with different types of silhouettes -- padded, soft, X-shaped, Y-shaped, and so forth. Just because a suit fits you well doesn't mean you'll necessarily love how it looks on you. It's about getting both the fit and silhouette right for your build, taste, and lifestyle.

The upside to made-to-measure is that it gives you some of the advantages of custom tailoring at a more affordable price. For you, it would also lower the number of times you have to travel. Additionally, if the company has sample garments, it can give you a better sense of whether you like the company's house style on you.

The downside is that made-to-measure often isn't as precise or well-fitting as bespoke. The made-to-measure process starts like this: you meet the company, get measured, and then choose your suit's fabrics and details. The company then sends your measurements to some far-off factory, where they use those numbers to adjust the block pattern. The suit is then made straight to finish, meaning it has all the buttonholes cut. The item is then sent to you. Since the buttonholes are cut, the adjustments possible include whatever would have been possible with an off-the-rack suit, but at least with the initial adjustments and customization, you (theoretically) can get a better fit than what you would have off-the-rack. The final adjustments are things such as nipping the waist, taking up the sleeves, letting out the upper back, etc. In tailoring, this is called having one fitting -- you're measured, the garment is cut, and then a tailor makes adjustments after seeing how the final product looks on you.

Sometimes the block pattern doesn't work well on you. Often, made-to-measure companies are also simply not very good, and the fitter is not very skilled.

The other method is bespoke. This differs from MTM in two big ways. First, the pattern has more room for adjustment. Although some bespoke tailoring houses use block patterns now, they (theoretically) should draft you a new pattern from scratch if the block can't be adjusted for you to an acceptable standard. This may be important to you since you have a 10-inch drop. Secondly, bespoke typically involves three fittings -- basted, forward, and final. At each iteration, the garment comes along slowly, half basted and made at each step, until you get to the final garment. In this way, the tailor can see how well the suit looks, and make adjustments where needed before punching the buttonholes (the final step that limits what can be done). Think of it like someone painting a portrait by starting with a sketch, filling in the details, and then adding more layers as they go.

If money is not an issue, then bespoke is the way to go. However, you will then need to travel four times -- the initial meeting, the basted fitting, the forward fitting, and then the final fitting. If you are confident in your local alterations tailor, you may be able to do the final fitting locally. Although the number of skilled tailors in the US nowadays is so low, if you haven't worn tailored clothing for a long time and are deeply acquainted with it, I suggest going to the bespoke tailor for the final fitting.

There is a real dearth of bespoke tailors in the US, as ready-to-wear has mostly wiped out the good ones. Most people rely on traveling operations from Britain and Italy. These tailors are based abroad and then travel through the US three to four times a year to meet with clients. This means you will have to schedule your trips around their trips, which will take some coordination.

I can't say for sure whether all the trunk shows land on Friday through Sunday. I'm based in the Bay Area and often see my tailors on Friday or the weekends when they come to San Francisco. However, it is not unusual for a tailor to hold a trunk show on a weekday because they're traveling through the US. If they hold a trunk show in NYC on a Saturday and Sunday, and then fly to San Francisco, those trunk shows will naturally be on Monday or Tuesday. The best way to figure this out is to 1) think about the tailor you want to use, and 2) contact them about your travel restrictions.

Using a traveling tailor means you will want to start this process soon. Even though the wedding is in 2023 (congrats, btw), tailors travel through the US three to four times a year, which means once every four to three months. Between the four meetings, it will take you all of 2022 to get your suit.

On the upside, when this works well, the suit is beautiful, and a skilled tailor can tell you whether a suit fits (like a rare gem in today's world). You will have access to much higher-quality fabrics. Bespoke is often a better value and better fitting than even luxury ready-to-wear, such as Tom Ford or whatnot. This is because the pattern has been drafted for you. Important if you have a 10-inch drop.

OK, so who to use? Generally speaking, British tailors will have a slightly more padded construction than Italian tailors. This means you get a stronger, straighter shoulder line and a slightly more formal-looking coat. Among these tailors, I use Steed and Anderson & Sheppard. I strongly feel that Steed does better work between the two. Some other Savile Row firms also travel through the US, such as Huntsman and Henry Poole. Huntsman also has an outpost in NYC or Chicago, I believe (check). They are the most padded of all the tailors.

London is also home to many world-class shoemakers. If you wanted to get a pair of bespoke shoes, that may be another option to look into. The ones that travel through the US include GJ Cleverley, John Lobb of St. James, John Lobb of Paris (two different firms, although they share the same name), Gaziano & Girling, Daniel Wegan, and Nicholas Templeman. Like bespoke suits, bespoke shoes require multiple fittings. However, the number is much lower -- just one or two fittings, in addition to the initial meeting. I strongly recommend against using Cleverley. I've used them and they were quite terrible, and this forum is littered with horror stories. Conversely, I can't recommend Nicholas Templeman more highly. He's easily the best bespoke maker I've used for anything -- shirts, pants, suits, sport coats, shoes, etc. Just a joy to work with and at the top of his category in terms of skill. John Lobb of Paris will also travel to see you, but their prices are quite high. About $10k for a pair of shoes, compared to the other firms listed, which are around $5k (although John Lobb of St. James is also around $10k). If you order fro John Lobb of Paris, this means you don't have to travel at all, as they'll meet you in your home or office. One member here has used them and had good results.

Back to tailors. On the other side of Europe, there are Italian tailors, who also travel here. Generally speaking, they make softer coats, which means less padding across the shoulders. This results in a softer, more natural, more casual-looking silhouette. If you have very strong, square shoulders, you will probably benefit from having less padding (so use an Italian tailor). If you have very sloped shoulders, you may benefit from having padding (so use an English tailor)

Some of the Italian tailors that travel here include Rubinacci, Liverano and Liverano, Sartoria Solito, and I Sarti Italiani. I use Solito and I Sarti, and like both of them. Solito cuts a very soft coat with curvy lines. Sometimes things can be a bit too trim for my taste, but you can get this adjusted at fittings. I Sarti Italiani is a Sicilian firm with more flexibility in terms of house style.

A bespoke suit will run you about $5k. Huntsman is a bit more expensive at around $7k. I Sarti Italiani is much lower at $2k. I recommend choosing not based on price but by

1) Travel schedule. Since you have travel restrictions, you will want to contact these firms to ask them about their schedules, and see if you can accommodate your schedule to see them.

2) Silhouette. Look through Instagram, especially the tagged sections, and see how you like the silhouettes. For I Sarti Italiani, look at the Instagram account UrbanComposition. He helped develop a style for the US market, which I think looks better than what they make for clients in Italy. When looking at silhouettes, pay special attention to people who seem like they have a similar build as you. It will give you an idea of how that house style might look on you in the end.

If you want to limit your travel, there are a few more options worth mentioning

1) NYC continues to be the hub for quality custom tailoring in the US. Some tailoring shops to look into: Ercole, Alan Flusser, No Man Walks Alone, and The Armoury. If you travel to NYC, there are also local shops for custom shirts. You can schedule fittings for custom shirts when you go see your suit tailor. Custom shirt shops include Geneva Custom Shirts, Paris Custom Shirts, and CEGO (I recommend CEGO).

Ercole, Alan Flusser, No Man Walks Alone, and The Armoury all do good work. The Armoury is an especially good shop for tailored clothing and you may be able to check out the selection of shoes, ties, and shirts. The people there give great advice and will advise you well. Most of these shops do MTM, but they are very good at their work and won't stick you in a bad suit for the sake of a sale.

You mentioned watches. Greg of No Man Walks Alone is very knowledgeable about watches and may be able to advise you if you stop by his showroom (also note that you need an appointment to stop by No Man Walks Alone, as they operate as a showroom, not store). Mark Cho of The Armoury is also very knowledgeable about watches, but he's primarily based in Hong Kong. Sometimes he travels to the NYC store, so you may be able to catch him there. Both of these guys are watch collectors.

2) There's a shop in Costa Mesa, California called Divij Bespoke. They travel throughout the US and often to many more cities than the people listed above. I don't know if they hit Arizona, but you may want to contact them. From what I've seen, their house style is a little more padded than Solito or I Sarti, but I've heard they're flexible.

I hope that helps. Congrats on your wedding!

An 8 inch drop isn’t actually that uncommon! Most of Isaia’s suits have an 8 inch drop off the rack! (Perhaps that could be a good selection for him?)

 

[dieworkwear]

An 8 inch drop isn’t actually that uncommon! Most of Isaia’s suits have an 8 inch drop off the rack! (Perhaps that could be a good selection for him?)

Ready to wear suits that claim to be a drop 8 are typically vanity-sized. This is also true of Isaia. They will sell a suit that has a jacket tagged 38 and then pants tagged 30. But if you measure the actual trousers, they are 32" across. For instance:

ISAIA "Sanita" Brown "Natural Black Sheep" Wool Shawl Collar Suit 48 N

NEW Model: Sanita EU Size: 48 US Size: 38 R8 Drop - Slim Fit Brown Color Natural Black Sheep 100% Wool, Flannel One Button Construction Shawl Collar Double Vented Fully Lined Non-Working Sleeve Buttonholes Besom Pockets Lapel Pin Included Flat Front Pants Made In Italy Measurements: Shoulder...

www.sartoriale.com

I took the OP as being a true drop 10, meaning his actual chest measures 39.5" and his waist measures 30" around. If he were to go with an Isaia suit, this would mean he would take a size 40 jacket and swap the stock 32 pants for a size 28 pant.

 

[Chadclass]

Ready to wear suits that claim to be a drop 8 are typically vanity-sized. This is also true of Isaia. They will sell a suit that has a jacket tagged 38 and then pants tagged 30. But if you measure the actual trousers, they are 32" across. For instance:

ISAIA "Sanita" Brown "Natural Black Sheep" Wool Shawl Collar Suit 48 N

NEW Model: Sanita EU Size: 48 US Size: 38 R8 Drop - Slim Fit Brown Color Natural Black Sheep 100% Wool, Flannel One Button Construction Shawl Collar Double Vented Fully Lined Non-Working Sleeve Buttonholes Besom Pockets Lapel Pin Included Flat Front Pants Made In Italy Measurements: Shoulder...

www.sartoriale.com

I took the OP as being a true drop 10, meaning his actual chest measures 39.5" and his waist measures 30" around. If he were to go with an Isaia suit, this would mean he would take a size 40 jacket and swap the stock 32 pants for a size 28 pant.

That’s an excellent point actually. I guess I misspoke. I have a couple from them myself, and I always wondered why the pants still fit me!