$300 Allen Edmonds vs $1000+ Lobb or Edward Green

[tone76]

For what they are, AE shoes are brilliant. Classy, well made and (relatively) affordable. Sure, JL and EG are in another league, but I have to concur with those that argue that the law of diminishing returns is at work here ... I'm not sure if the other league that JL and EG play in is over 300% better than the one AE plays in. Arguably twice as good, but three times might be a stretch.

Realistically, whilst I'd love a pair of JLs or EGs, I still have a couple of holes in my shoe rotation that AEs will plug nicely. I also need to try a gateway drug to high end British shoes too, such as a pair of C&Js, prior to hitting the hard stuff.

Anyway, in my city, very few people would pick the difference between a pair of $1,000 JLs, $300 AEs or $100 Hush Puppies. In fact, the only dress shoes I've ever had positive comments on were a pair of pointy toed loafers that set me back a whopping $28 at Rivers. Disclaimer: I bought these 3 years before discovering SF, and have since donated them to charity.

 

[Mute]

Here's the thing. Are they 3 times better? Three times better at what? Lasting longer? Having more supple leather? Making you look three times better? There isn't exactly a quantitative measure to shoes or a number of other products.

 

[NORE]

My EGs are 3X better than the AEs I've owned. In fit, finish and materials.

 

[chogall]

My EGs are 3X better than the AEs I've owned. In fit, finish and materials.

Fit is personal...

 

[aj_del]

While I haven't worn AE or EG ever, IME I have almost always been disappointed when getting a very expensive product in comparison to moderately expensive one. I always wonder after getting it that this looks so average. Just got my first pairs of Vass and JL and I probably wouldnt pay such a premium over CJ benchgrade in the future.

Is RLPL twice as good as Caruso ? Is JL twice as good CJ handgrade ? Is EG twice as good as AS Exclusive ?

For some people, yes. But I am not one of those people.

 

[NORE]



Fit is personal... 

True, but with the wide variety of sizes offered by AE you'd think one could find the perfect fit. Not so in my case.

 

[swiego]

Having owned a number of these shoes (AE vs. more expensive brands) and pondered this question post-purchase myself, what I've noticed to be the differences:

1. Finish on the Lobbs, etc., is almost always better. Specifically, leather pieces are more cleanly cut and more cleanly aligned together before being sewn. The stitching is more even, tighter, closer to the seams and less likely to have any loose threads. The dye will be more even and extend well into any seam. Brogue punches are sharper with greater relief. Detail work (what's that thing where a geared wheel is run along the leather to leave tread marks?) is more carefully done. Essentially there is a distinct impression that steps were done more slowly and carefully. I see these on Lobbs, C&J hand grades and EGs. I don't see this on an AE. I won't pass judgement on whether this is worth the premium; I think it's subjective and for myself I am not sure.

2. The interior does tend to be lined, or lined with higher quality skins, and the stitching in the interior lining is also quite clean. With less expensive shoes, interior lining, being invisible once the foot is in the shoe, tends not to get the same attention. My experience is that there is a comfort benefit--my feet slip into nicely lined shoes and feel held snuggly and comfortably by them. However this benefit is nowhere near the comfort benefit one would experience switching from poorly fitting shoes to well-fitting shoes. So, again, value is subjective.

3. With the exception of my cordovan AE, I find the soles on more expensive shoes to be uniformly more durable and longer lasting. With a good rotation one should get years out of any shoe over $150, but that being said I do expect my more expensive shoes to undergo 10-year (or longer) re-soling cycles vs. my $200-300 shoes lasting perhaps half as long.

4. I have found my more expensive welted leather sole shoes to be more water resistant (out the store) than the less expensive ones. Probably again due to more careful assembly.

5. All other stylistic attributes aside, the more expensive brands clearly (IMO) have mastered the art of the rich, deep, colorful leather finish better than the less expensive brands. Likewise, the skins used for the uppers are consistently softer to touch: I've noticed this to be true for both calf and suede. This along with the sleeker designs tend to give off an "expensive" look that I don't see in the AEs. Is this look and feel worth a few hundred dollars? I guess that's up to the buyer.

What I've noticed to be similarities:

1. In terms of robust construction quality, I have not seen any significant difference between a $200 AE and a $1000+ JL or EG. The leathers seem equally durable, the seams seem equally unlikely to unravel, the tongue is equally likely to get scuffed by the laces, and the laces are equally likely to disintegrate. I think that with proper care, the insoles, welt and uppers on my less expensive shoes should last as long as the more expensive ones... with more frequent re-soling being the possible exception.

2. Price seems to have little bearing on customer support, fit, comfort. Frankly, I've gotten better support from AE than anyone else, and more size flexibility as well. The staff at the C&J and JL boutiques are not any more knowledgeable than those at the AE store, and the paraphernalia (polish, brushes, etc.) are basically the same... with the exception of the more expensive brands offering lasted or better fit-shoe trees, although you may pay dearly for them. Overall I think this is a big mark against the more expensive proprietors; the "purchasing experience" isn't actually any better. My experience purchasing from JL and C&J after AE has been a bit like going to a fancy steakhouse and getting similar or ever so slightly worse service than I got from Taco Bell the night before.

My conclusions from all this are:

1. Less expensive shoes will probably last just as long - I would expect my AEs to be equally functional in 20 years as my EGs.

2. I would expect my EGs to look better (aesthetically) in 20 years, due to the richer upper finish out the gate, cleaner finishing and less frequent re-soling.

3. I would expect my EGs and JLs to make me feel better about wearing them over the course of those 20 years.

4. I would expect AE to treat me far better than any of the others, during that ownership period.

So in a way, I'm kind of glad that I will continue to purchase a few pairs of both. Each gives me a perspective on the other.

 

[RingTail]

Being new to all of this and my exposure limited to what's available in retail near me, I looked at what they had in stock at Nordstrom, and wanted to get some feedback on Santoni's, they were the most comfortable shoe in their premium category that can be resoled.

 

[AlexE]

Deja vu ... when did that get revived again?

Well if "three time better" means "three times longer lasting" one should certainly stick with AEs. I doubt that one can get 3 times the mileage out of AEs under the same conditions.

However, comparing the quality of broguing, leather, inner lining, soles, stitching between my EGs and my AEs then I can see why EGs are significantly more expensive. And then there is the question of the attractiveness of lasts and stylings...well I know this is a matter of taste, but for my eyes AEs or also C&Js are by far not as beautiful as EGs.

 

[andrewgreg]



Deja vu ... when did that get revived again?
Well if "three time better" means "three times longer lasting" one should certainly stick with AEs. I doubt that one can get 3 times the mileage out of AEs under the same conditions.
However, comparing the quality of broguing, leather, inner lining, soles, stitching between my EGs and my AEs then I can see why EGs are significantly more expensive. And then there is the question of the attractiveness of lasts and stylings...well I know this is a matter of taste, but for my eyes AEs or also C&Js are by far not as beautiful as EGs.

For people have lots of shoes to wear, one shoe may only be worn several times a year, in this case the leather quality and construction become less important.

However, even for the people don't know much about the shoe, compare same style of Lobb and AE, they can easily tell Lobb looks nicer. Styling and detailing is more important in this case.

This makes me think of designer brands, they look nice indeed. And they can maintain basic quality. It looks nice, that's part of the reason why people buy it.

 

[Gdot]



Deja vu ... when did that get revived again?
Well if "three time better" means "three times longer lasting" one should certainly stick with AEs. I doubt that one can get 3 times the mileage out of AEs under the same conditions.
However, comparing the quality of broguing, leather, inner lining, soles, stitching between my EGs and my AEs then I can see why EGs are significantly more expensive. And then there is the question of the attractiveness of lasts and stylings...well I know this is a matter of taste, but for my eyes AEs or also C&Js are by far not as beautiful as EGs.

Few shoes excude the vibe of perfection that EGs give off. You can 'taste it' in the accumulation of the precise craftsmenship, the delicacy of the brouguing (when it exists) etc. etc. and the finishing. I wish I could say I loved their lasts, but most leave me a little less than excited.

In any case - even the most uninformed rube can easily see that they are 'more expensive' than a shoe from AE. As long as the shoes are sitting side by side, that is.

Actually on the foot, and in the wild, some of the simpler, black AEs, might fool more people than one would like to think.

 

[Quadcammer]

In black, from more than 3 feet away, I'd be inclined that a plain captoe could range from $200 to $1000 without anyone telling the difference. The richness of the finish on brown shoes adds some variability, but the last conversation is a bit weak for EG particularly (compared to Lobbs or G&G). The finishing...well there is no doubt. Once again though, between a $450 C&J benchgrade and an EG becomes tricky, since the finishing on C&Js is usually quite good, even on benchgrades.

 

[NORE]

I can spot an EG shoe anywhere as long as it has a leather sole. Similarly, I can spot an AE shoes anywhere. Also, FWIW their black shoes really didn't do much for me as the same shoe in another color. The finishing is awesome.

 

[Quadcammer]



I can spot an EG shoe anywhere as long as it has a leather sole.

bull

 

[nmprisons]



bull

Why? Picking Allen Edmonds out of a crowd is very easy (particularly the 360 degree welted models), as is a pair of G & G or Vass (though the only pairs I have ever seen of the latter have been on my feet). I don't think it would be that much harder with EG. My sense, though, is that only those intimately familiar with a particular maker can quickly identify that maker's shoes. I couldn't pick a pair of Westons out for the life of me, but I have frequently pointed out to my (uninterested) fiance pairs of Edward Green or Crockett and Jones that we have seen while walking around Manhattan.