3-roll-2 with an awkward button stance?

[stuffedsuperdud]

@dieworkwear you follow this much more closely than I do of course, but to be fair, I think part of the problem is that the most recent coming of the hard-3 also came with a bunch of other 90s-bad things, as exemplified by MJ and that picture from the 2003 NBA draft (LeBron why???). Hard heavy shoulders, a boxy middle, flat fused lapels, big pants, etc. The Apparel Arts and Golden Age Hollywood guys that we fetishize didn't really have that problem.

 

[dieworkwear]

The Apparel Arts and Golden Age Hollywood guys that we fetishize didn't really have that problem.

I think they did though.

Sorry to Bromley, but I think those Golden Age photos only look good in the context of menswear trivia. It's cool to see those photos and see different ways of tailoring. But, I wouldn't say those guys look great or that I would want to wear those jackets.

The lapels on this jacket just don't look very good to me. They're short and truncated, and the overall body ends up looking boxy without that long lapel line cutting into the center of the jacket. As mentioned earlier, I also think you take away the fulcrum of the jacket, which is at the waist.

Compare these jackets. Which one flatters Gary Cooper more?

 

[Bromley]

Jacket looks better in the above pic with Hemingway. But I would guess that this jacket is another one of Gary Cooper's 3-button jackets, only in this picture you can see how the lapel rolls comfortably to a lower point like I think it should end up doing on a good 3-button jacket.

Here he is in a true 3-roll-2 jacket, which I also think looks good:

 

[Nobilis Animus]

View attachment 1486636

One may dislike the style, but I don't see how anyone can say that a jacket cut like the above is boxy.

Perhaps a longer lapel line be preferred, but it fits well, has a clearly-defined waist, and strong shoulders. It looks better than a lot of what passes for fitted these days.

 

[Bromley]

Some modern 3-button jackets I like.

 

[noobanker]

Yeah i don’t know about these 3 button pics.
They look pretty ugly regardless of era, at least to my 2020-style-conscious eyes.

Can we get back to discussing the high vs low3r2s?

 

[dieworkwear]

Some modern 3-button jackets I like.
View attachment 1486710 View attachment 1486711 View attachment 1486712 View attachment 1486713 View attachment 1486714

Me trying to see if the lapels roll past the top button:

 

[Bromley]

That's what I'm trying to say. I think the lapel on a good 3-button jacket ends up rolling a little lower with time and wear to a place that looks really nice, but still higher than a typical 3/2. The examples posted earlier in this thread that I didn't like showed jackets where the lapel looked glued stuck in its spot.

 

[aristoi bcn]

I think they did though.

Sorry to Bromley, but I think those Golden Age photos only look good in the context of menswear trivia. It's cool to see those photos and see different ways of tailoring. But, I wouldn't say those guys look great or that I would want to wear those jackets.

The lapels on this jacket just don't look very good to me. They're short and truncated, and the overall body ends up looking boxy without that long lapel line cutting into the center of the jacket. As mentioned earlier, I also think you take away the fulcrum of the jacket, which is at the waist.



View attachment 1486668



Compare these jackets. Which one flatters Gary Cooper more?


View attachment 1486687

My favourite jacket in this thread. I prefer the symmetry of a 3 button like the above than a jacket with long lapels and short length below the buttoning point.

 

[noobanker]

Some modern 3-button jackets I like.
View attachment 1486714

View attachment 1486710
this seems like a real 3 button

View attachment 1486711
this seems like a 3r2

View attachment 1486712
can't tell if this is a 3b or 3r2

View attachment 1486713
looks like a 3r2

 

[dieworkwear]

I would characterize some of those as 3r2.5, but I suppose it's semantics. If we're discussing whether a "three-button" jacket looks better as the lapel relaxes and rolls past the top button, then I would agree. But the more you truncate the lapel, which I think is necessary to show the button and the front buttonhole on what I would call a "true three," I think the worse the jacket looks.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

The point of the dégagé look is that the jacket can be easily buttoned back up to the top one if desired, but it looks more stylish without doing so.

3-2 roll jackets that can't button up are imposters - false jackets which try for all the world to look like the pedigree they lack. The real "Ivy Style" was never like that, unless you got your clothes at ripoff stores.

 

[dieworkwear]

The point of the dégagé look is that the jacket can be easily buttoned back up to the top one if desired, but it looks more stylish without doing so.

3-2 roll jackets that can't button up are imposters - false jackets which try for all the world to look like the pedigree they lack. The real "Ivy Style" was never like that, unless you got your clothes at ripoff stores.

how would a 3r2 jacket be made so you cant fasten the top?

 

[Nobilis Animus]

how would a 3r2 jacket be made so you cant fasten the top?

I've seen a few which are cut pretty much like 2-button jackets with a vestigial buttonhole. On examples like the Fred Astaire, Steve McQueen, and fourth picture you posted on page 2 (can't recall his name), the jackets are clearly pressed to the second button, and wouldn't easily be done up past it.

The picture of Valentino is an example of how it should look, IMO: a nice roll to the second button, but with the right lapel hanging back slightly.

 

[dieworkwear]

I've seen a few which are cut pretty much like 2-button jackets with a vestigial buttonhole. On examples like the Fred Astaire, Steve McQueen, and fourth picture you posted on page 2 (can't recall his name), the jackets are clearly pressed to the second button, and wouldn't easily be done up past it.

Hm, I don't think 3r2 and 2 buttons are cut differently. It's just where the lapel rolls, like how DBs can be made to roll to a different buttoning point. Despos or someone else here can correct me if I'm wrong.