# 3-roll-2 with an awkward button stance?

#### Despos

##### Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
One thing to look at if you want to determine if it it is cut as a 2 button or if cut as a 3 button with the elongated roll to the middle button is the point of any “belly” on the lapel edge above the button. Aristoi on pg 3 post 36 kind of shows this. The plaid jacket being cut has the slightest curvature of belly to the second button. The top button is added. The G. Bruce Boyer picture on pg 2 is a better example. The lapel edge is distinctly shaped to the middle button as a 2 button cut. A button added above.
On Post 36 the second picture has no belly but looks like he is cutting a true 3 button there judging from the angle of the break line. Most all of the newer, modern 3 roll 2 pictures in this thread have no curve or belly on the edge. My guess is it’s tailors choice.

#### Nobilis Animus

##### Distinguished Member
One thing to look at if you want to determine if it it is cut as a 2 button or if cut as a 3 button with the elongated roll to the middle button is the point of any “belly” on the lapel edge above the button. Aristoi on pg 3 post 36 kind of shows this. The plaid jacket being cut has the slightest curvature of belly to the second button. The top button is added. The G. Bruce Boyer picture on pg 2 is a better example. The lapel edge is distinctly shaped to the middle button as a 2 button cut. A button added above.
On Post 36 the second picture has no belly but looks like he is cutting a true 3 button there judging from the angle of the break line. Most all of the newer, modern 3 roll 2 pictures in this thread have no curve or belly on the edge. My guess is it’s tailors choice.
Thank you for explaining it better. This is what I was trying to get at: those coats that would be able to physically fasten the top button maybe, but would look awkward doing so because of the cut of the lapel.

#### Despos

##### Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Thank you for explaining it better. This is what I was trying to get at: those coats that would be able to physically fasten the top button maybe, but would look awkward doing so because of the cut of the lapel.
How the lapel edge is shaped is arbitrary to the maker and has no bearing on it being “able to physically button the top button”. The collar length is what controls the roll of where and how it would button. Everything about the roll of the lapel is from how the collar is set.

#### Nobilis Animus

##### Distinguished Member
How the lapel edge is shaped is arbitrary to the maker and has no bearing on it being “able to physically button the top button”. The collar length is what controls the roll of where and how it would button. Everything about the roll of the lapel is from how the collar is set.
All right, the collar length then. I make no pretensions to knowing the details of how lapel rolls are formed or fashioned.

#### Bromley

##### Senior Member
GW looking good in a 3-button jacket

#### clee1982

##### Stylish Dinosaur
single button, solve all your problem! and if I were to choose, 3 roll to 2, 3 to 2.5 is more "implementation dependent" I suppose

#### SmoothLefty

##### Senior Member
I loved reading through this thread. In true SF fashion, we have posters who have an irrational hatred for a minute detail in addition to those who love it.

Almost all of my sport coats are 3/2. Like others have said, I like the casual look of Ivy jackets: swelled edges, natural shoulders, 3/2 front, 3.5" lapels. I can take or leave patch pockets. Like all of my clothing decisions, I wear them because I think they look good. It's subjective but it's my cup of tea. They are simply the most visually appealing jacket style IMO.

#### Nobilis Animus

##### Distinguished Member
I loved reading through this thread. In true SF fashion, we have posters who have an irrational hatred for a minute detail in addition to those who love it.

Almost all of my sport coats are 3/2. Like others have said, I like the casual look of Ivy jackets: swelled edges, natural shoulders, 3/2 front, 3.5" lapels. I can take or leave patch pockets. Like all of my clothing decisions, I wear them because I think they look good. It's subjective but it's my cup of tea. They are simply the most visually appealing jacket style IMO.
These sorts of things always remind of Edmund Burke's On Taste:

"Whilst we consider taste merely according to its nature and species, we shall find its principles entirely uniform; but the degree in which these principles prevail in the several individuals of mankind, is altogether as different as the principles themselves are similar. For sensibility and judgment, which are the qualities that compose what we commonly call a taste, vary exceedingly in various people. From a defect in the former of these qualities arises a want of taste; a weakness in the latter constitutes a wrong or a bad one. There are some men formed with feelings so blunt, with tempers so cold and phlegmatic, that they can hardly be said to be awake during the whole course of their lives. Upon such persons the most striking objects make but a faint and obscure impression. There are others so continually in the agitation of gross and merely sensual pleasures, or so occupied in the low drudgery of avarice, or so heated in the chase of honours and distinction, that their minds, which had been used continually to the storms of these violent and tempestuous passions, can hardly be put in motion by the delicate and refined play of the imagination. These men, though from a different cause, become as stupid and insensible as the former; but whenever either of these happen to be struck with any natural elegance or greatness, or with these qualities in any work of art, they are moved upon the same principle."

I am convinced that taste is not something subjective, although its interpretation is much-debated. I'm of half a mind to begin a thread on the topic sometime.

#### bdavro23

##### Distinguished Member
I am convinced that taste is not something subjective, although its interpretation is much-debated. I'm of half a mind to begin a thread on the topic sometime.
If one is to agree that taste is objective, then one must also agree that they may not have it.

#### Nobilis Animus

##### Distinguished Member
If one is to agree that taste is objective, then one must also agree that they may not have it.
Yes, dispositions would need to be honestly evaluated against a standard of taste, just like arguments against reason. Just as no one is necessarily exempt from falling into a bad argument or being devoid of reasoning, so too there can be errors or absences of taste.

#### noobanker

##### Senior Member
well we can all agree that those nba suits are shit.

#### aristoi bcn

##### Senior Member
Liverano 3 button.

#### Concordia

##### Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
This is a few of my 3/2 roll jackets. I like all variations of three button jackets even the hard three. It looks great with the right fabric and cut.

View attachment 1486228View attachment 1486229View attachment 1486230View attachment 1486231View attachment 1486232View attachment 1486233View attachment 1486234
Some lovely variants, here. The 3/r/2 are look unexpectedly great, because the sack coats are cut and worn perfectly.

The 3/2.5 is even better, IMO, as in that brown gun-club. At its best, that style traces a lovely, uninterrupted curve from the collarbone down to the ankle. Elegant and casual, hard to replicate.

The 'hard three' can look altogether too much like a Norfolk jacket for my taste. But I have a few tweeds that have wound up that way and look fine. I get a lot of those from a soft-tailoring London shop, where I usually ask for 3 and don't get too hung up on where they let it roll. The canvas is usually soft enough to permit a partial roll over time.

Part of the secret of a 3 that doesn't roll or rolls 2.5 is that it is often worn over a waistcoat or a pullover sweater vest. That changes the balance that you'd want from a 2-button, and allows for a somewhat different approach.

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