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3-roll-2 with an awkward button stance?

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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I disagree with this. I’m not a huge fan, but I think @Thin White Duke looks more than serviceable in his hard three jackets/suits. They have grown on me over the years.

I‘ve played with wearing my jackets as three buttons as well. Most of my jackets are vintage/used so I can only assume if they were 3 or 3/2 jackets.

Not the best pictures, but I don’t find the three button look objectionable and good see someone liking it.

Excuse the poor angle.

View attachment 1486296
View attachment 1486297
View attachment 1486299
View attachment 1486298
Buttoning only the center button looks so much better.
 

aristoi bcn

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From the pictures I've seen of the cutting boards of A&S/Hitchcock in one side and Neapolitan tailors in the other I think the pattern they draft for a 3 roll 2 coat is different. It's not only how the coat is constructed, the pattern of the 3 roll 2 of those drape cut tailors is the pattern of a 2 button coat where they add a button on the lapel. Neapolitan tailors cut the 3 roll 2 out of a 3 button coat pattern and due to the canvass used and the ironing the top button rolls down.
 

FlyingHorker

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From the pictures I've seen of the cutting boards of A&S/Hitchcock in one side and Neapolitan tailors in the other I think the pattern they draft for a 3 roll 2 coat is different. It's not only how the coat is constructed, the pattern of the 3 roll 2 of those drape cut tailors is the pattern of a 2 button coat where they add a button on the lapel. Neapolitan tailors cut the 3 roll 2 out of a 3 button coat pattern and due to the canvass used and the ironing the top button rolls down.
This jacket I can see being a 3 button coat


Though DWW seemed to differentiate a Liverano jacket from Neapolitan jackets. Those terms always confused me.
 

Nobilis Animus

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You assume wrong.

If you’re gonna call a jacket a “roll” anything then I expect to see an actual roll, otherwise calling a jacket ‘x roll x’ is at best a misnomer and at worst meangless.

There are loads of “foundations of classic American style”
which won’t appeal to everyone - American or not. Sack suits, cowboy boots, Bean boots, chinos with fish embroidered in them ... the list is endless.

Edited to add:

Your examples there are hardly fair. Those hard threes that were popular say from the mid nineties for the next decade were a very poor iteration of the style but thankfully you don’t see them around much these days and none of my circa fifty odd jackets and suit jackets look anything like that. I accept that hard threes can come with a high degree of difficulty with hazardous results (too short lapels, poor button spacing, no lapel roll, hard to fit on a stout torso, etc) but when they’re done right there’s nothing better.
All about opinions eh?
Thank you! I thought I was going mad and the only one who thought this way.
 

aristoi bcn

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Here you can see the difference:

If you try to button up the Hitchcock jacket you will end up with a very strange thing. My A&S is also cut this way, I can try to take a picture next time.

Hit x Cock.jpg
Zizo.jpg
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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This jacket I can see being a 3 button coat

Though DWW seemed to differentiate a Liverano jacket from Neapolitan jackets. Those terms always confused me.
Liverano is based in Florence. Naples is Naples. Two different cities with different ways of constructing a jacket. Florentine tailoring tends to have an extended shoulder and slightly more padding. It also doesn't have a front dart. Neapolitan tailoring has softer shoulders, and thus often narrower shoulders, and has an extended front dart. Results in two different silhouettes.
 

FlyingHorker

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Here you can see the difference:

If you try to button up the Hitchcock jacket you will end up with a very strange thing. My A&S is also cut this way, I can try to take a picture next time.

View attachment 1486308View attachment 1486309
Yeah some pictures would be helpful.
Liverano is based in Florence. Naples is Naples. Two different cities with different ways of constructing a jacket. Florentine tailoring tends to have an extended shoulder and slightly more padding. It also doesn't have a front dart. Neapolitan tailoring has softer shoulders, and thus often narrower shoulders, and has an extended front dart. Results in two different silhouettes.
Gotcha, I think I understand now.

I wonder where Steed falls into all of this for silhouette and construction.

I know they're UK, but they seem like an intersection of Naples, Florence, and the UK. Longer jackets, but soft, flatter lapels, drape-y looking.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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I know they're UK, but they seem like an intersection of Naples, Florence, and the UK. Longer jackets, but soft, flatter lapels, drape-y looking.
They're just an English drape cut, so a continuation of old A&S.
 

FlyingHorker

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They're just an English drape cut, so a continuation of old A&S.
I see. It was Bespoke Wrinkles' jackets that gave me that impression, but it looks like that's either adapting to his body type, or they're very flexible with styling.

 

willyto

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Some vintage examples from different periods:

From the US:

This one I own myself and it's a lat 30s one, can be worn hard 3 or with a bit of a roll:









1940s:








This is the same one without the mannequin:




1950s:



Haspel 1960s:




1920s buttoned in different ways:







You can see it in the advertisement:



British:





From Poland:





 

Nobilis Animus

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Some vintage examples from different periods:

From the US:

This one I own myself and it's a lat 30s one, can be worn hard 3 or with a bit of a roll:



1940s:
Thank you. These two are beautiful examples of how stylish a three-button can look, and how it should be cut (in my view).
 

classicalthunde

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My Solito sport coats have a lot of "bloom" to the lapel. My Steeds do not. All of my jackets are 3r2. It is not because Steed presses the lapel, but because of how they construct the jacket.
do you know the differences in the construction that make it lay more flat?

(Maybe if I throw up the @Despos bat signal he can help out with some technical input)

I would prefer mine to lay flatter and have less ‘bloom
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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do you know the differences in the construction that make it lay more flat?

(Maybe if I throw up the @Despos bat signal he can help out with some technical input)

I would prefer mine to lay flatter and have less ‘bloom
I don't know for sure, but I've always assumed it's due to the type of canvas used and the technique used in pad stitching. On my Steed jackets, the area where the lapel breaks is fairly flat. It doesn't have as much "expression" or "roll." The canvas inside feels lighter and thinner (from what I can tell without opening the jacket). The lapels on my Solito jackets feel heavier and have a lot more curvature. When I asked Luigi how they do such an expressive role on the lapels, he explained it's an effect of the hand stitching, which I assume he means pad stitching.
 

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