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3-roll-2 with an awkward button stance?

noobanker

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I've noticed that some tailors/brands put the roll more prominently, such that almost the entire buttonhole is exposed, while others do a much higher roll, where you could still see the 3rd button half way, and buttonhole is not exposed.
The higher rolled 3-roll-2's seem a little dated, or more "Florentine" than Neapolitan.
-See below some examples of what I perceive to be higher rolling 3-roll-2's.
-Versus Cesare Attolini 3-roll-2 which has a lower lapel roll. Kitons seem similar.

What are your thoughts on different styles of 3-roll-2s?
 

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aristoi bcn

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I like real 3 buttons but never button the top one. Like Caraceni Roma.
unnamed.jpg
 

classicalthunde

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This is a few of my 3/2 roll jackets. I like all variations of three button jackets even the hard three. It looks great with the right fabric and cut.

View attachment 1486228View attachment 1486229View attachment 1486230View attachment 1486231View attachment 1486232View attachment 1486233View attachment 1486234
I've always preferred the "full" 3r2 version where the button hole lies almost flat on the lapel (like on ex 2, 6 and 7), as opposed to the 3r2.5 seen in the threads initial post.

I like 3r2 cause it has always expressed a relaxed informality to me (same as patch pockets), personally I think this pairs well with a lower button stance than a higher one.
 
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Thin White Duke

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1, 2, 6 and 7 are not ‘3 roll 2’ at all as there is clearly no sign of any ‘roll’ at all. They are just two button jackets with pressed flat lapels and superfluous button holes buggering up the lower lapel.

As I mentioned recently on the ‘Made To Measure’ thread I really dislike the look of these things, as well as their masquerading as a ‘three button’ jacket when they are really nothing of the sort!

I reserve almost as much disdain for the ‘true’ 3 roll 2 as worn by Daniel Craig as James Bond, in which the roll is so far down the lapel that the top button and button hole are all but invisible, in which case - what’s the point? Just wear a 2 button and be done with it.

I’m obviously a proponent of the ‘hard three’ but I also like those jackets for which the middle button only is fastened but there is an elegant roll at or about the level of top button but they are still in evidence. There’s an elegant symmetry about these when done right.
 

polyfusion

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I have a bunch of 3 roll 2 jackets and I’m yet to understand the point of them. When everyone just buttons the same middle button, the visible buttonhole from the hidden button is just kind of annoying. I wish this fad would die out tbh
 

dieworkwear

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1, 2, 6 and 7 are not ‘3 roll 2’ at all as there is clearly no sign of any ‘roll’ at all. They are just two button jackets with pressed flat lapels and superfluous button holes buggering up the lower lapel.

As I mentioned recently on the ‘Made To Measure’ thread I really dislike the look of these things, as well as their masquerading as a ‘three button’ jacket when they are really nothing of the sort!

I reserve almost as much disdain for the ‘true’ 3 roll 2 as worn by Daniel Craig as James Bond, in which the roll is so far down the lapel that the top button and button hole are all but invisible, in which case - what’s the point? Just wear a 2 button and be done with it.

I’m obviously a proponent of the ‘hard three’ but I also like those jackets for which the middle button only is fastened but there is an elegant roll at or about the level of top button but they are still in evidence. There’s an elegant symmetry about these when done right.
Unclear on what you mean. How are the photos posted not a 3r2? The "roll" refers to how the lapel rolls past the top-most button. The lapel doesn't have to have a springy roll -- that's a result of the construction. Some lapels have more "bloom" than others, but such is not a defining factor of a 3r2.

My Solito sport coats have a lot of "bloom" to the lapel. My Steeds do not. All of my jackets are 3r2. It is not because Steed presses the lapel, but because of how they construct the jacket.

Again, makes me sad to see Americans (I assume you're an American) not get the 3r2. This is basically a foundation of classic American style.
 

noobanker

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Unclear on what you mean. How are the photos posted not a 3r2? The "roll" refers to how the lapel rolls past the top-most button. The lapel doesn't have to have a springy roll -- that's a result of the construction. Some lapels have more "bloom" than others, but such is not a defining factor of a 3r2.

My Solito sport coats have a lot of "bloom" to the lapel. My Steeds do not. All of my jackets are 3r2. It is not because Steed presses the lapel, but because of how they construct the jacket.

Again, makes me sad to see Americans (I assume you're an American) not get the 3r2. This is basically a foundation of classic American style.
I love the 3r2s, since they add visual interest and an air of informality to a suit or a sport coat, although i’m not sure about the higher sitting rolls.

Can you clarify what you mean by the notion that 3r2’s are american?
 

dieworkwear

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Three buttons are terrible because a jacket's fulcrum is the waist, which on a traditional jacket is marked by the center button on a three-button jacket. When you get a hard three, the lapel prematurely terminates too high above, shortening the lapel line and making the wearer look stiff. The middle section of the jacket ends up looking big and boxy, like the wearer is wrapped in a bolt of cloth.

Two buttons are traditionally for suits, and at least helps with extending the lapel line, bringing things back to the fulcrum of the jacket. But the three-roll-two is a distinctively American feature. It's sporty, casual, and youthful (all hallmarks of classic American style, such as the penny loafer and button-down collar).

Liverano jackets have a high buttoning point, but this works with thier overall silhouette, which is widening. Notice that Liverano typically cuts jackets a bit shorter and with an extended shoulder line. This widens the silhouette. When you have a higher buttoning point combined with very straight lapels, the lapel line flares outward, emphasizing that wide, curvy silhouette.

tumblr_inline_oelpyvlN411qfex1b_500.jpg
Screen-Shot-2018-08-06-at-12.29.11-PM.png



Compare that with a Neapolitan jacket, which is still short, but has narrower shoulders and no such lapel style. Theirs are often straight lapels, but a more traditional 3r2 configuration

tumblr_inline_ocfcqdNBLB1qfex1b_500.jpg
Simon-Crompton-in-Solito-jacket-bespoke-934x1400.jpg



If you stuck that Liverano lapel roll on a Brooks Brothers suit, it would look wrong, like putting random things on a Mr. Potato Head. The lapel should complement the rest of the jacket's silhouette.


This is the classic Brooks Brothers No. 1 Sack Suit. Why would you stick a hard three or a Liverano type lapel on this? It would look awful

SackSuit_Archive.jpg
 

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