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3 pc Suit Vest Buttoning

Metlin

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So, I recently stumbled upon a thread on AAAC where there was some discussion around buttoning vests.

In particular, there seemed to be some uncertainty around whether or not all buttons of the vest were buttoned in a 3 piece suit.

I quote --

Yes, on a black/white tie vest, you button all the buttons. On the lounge/business suit vest, you don't button the last button.
Is this true? I always thought that all buttons of the vest of a suit (formal or lounge) were buttoned.

Thoughts? Opinions? Rules?
 

ChicagoJohn

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According to AAC's "Book"/CDROM
------

Why no men's garment is designed to be fastened by the bottom button:



King Edward VII, “Bertie”, son of Victoria (1841 – 1910, King 1901 - 1910) was so heavy that he could not get the bottom button fastened on his vest or to be more historically kind, maybe he just forgot. His subjects taking it as a fashion statement followed his lead and today no man’s suit, sports jacket or vest is designed to button the bottom button. The tradition of not buttoning the bottom button may have also come from the early waistcoats, which were very long. It may have been out of necessity of being able to walk that the bottom buttons were left undone.
 

izlat

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For an alternative - I've read that you actually should be able to button it on a well-fitting vest and the trend started when some guy (I think the Duke) simply forgot to fasten the last button and appeared at a public event...

Cheers
 

countdemoney

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On the lounge suit vest, you do not button the bottom button. Note that this tradition does not a apply to DB vest. Some pics that may help show some different styles from Will's blog that turned up in a google.
The pics don't seem to be coming through. Here's a link to Will's article and pictures of vests. http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/...r-db-vest.html
 

Metlin

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Originally Posted by ChicagoJohn
According to AAC's "Book"/CDROM ------ Why no men's garment is designed to be fastened by the bottom button: King Edward VII, “Bertie”, son of Victoria (1841 – 1910, King 1901 - 1910) was so heavy that he could not get the bottom button fastened on his vest or to be more historically kind, maybe he just forgot. His subjects taking it as a fashion statement followed his lead and today no man’s suit, sports jacket or vest is designed to button the bottom button. The tradition of not buttoning the bottom button may have also come from the early waistcoats, which were very long. It may have been out of necessity of being able to walk that the bottom buttons were left undone.
Interesting. I was aware of King Edward's propensity for not buttoning his lower button owing to his sizable tum, but I didn't quite know that it applied to other garments. Things you learn everyday.
Originally Posted by izlat
For an alternative - I've read that you actually should be able to button it on a well-fitting vest and the trend started when some guy (I think the Duke) simply forgot to fasten the last button and appeared at a public event... Cheers
Yup, so it would seem.
Originally Posted by countdemoney
On the lounge suit vest, you do not button the bottom button. Note that this tradition does not a apply to DB vest. Some pics that may help show some different styles from Will's blog that turned up in a google.
The pics don't seem to be coming through. Here's a link to Will's article and pictures of vests. http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/...r-db-vest.html

That was very useful - thanks. I especially liked the picture on Will's blog - way more useful than any description. And weirdly enough, I never really thought about a DB vest, but I guess it does make sense.
 

OxxfordSJLINY

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Just buy one of the following types of single breasted vests (if you choose to buy a single breasted vest): 5 X 4 button, 6 X 5 button or 7 X 6 button (the bottom of the center of each side of the vest should have what is called a straight away angle (just as casual as it is formal making this angle supremely versatile) that is neither spread nor pointed.

The following angles on the center of the bottom of each side of the vest should be avoided due to minimal versatility or no versatility: what is called the spread angle (formal or very formal but not very casual or not casual at all) as well as what is called the pointed angle (much less formal and often casual or very casual but not very formal or not formal at all) on the center of each side of the vest.

The button configurations above are the perfect solution. The bottom button is always unbuttoned due to the fact that it can never be buttoned. The bottom button and button hole that are each on the angle are spaced far enough apart that the bottom button cannot be buttoned without looking ludicrous and, most likely, damaging the vest sooner or later or, more likely, sooner rather than later.

Yet, you can button all of the buttons on the vest that can be buttoned (which is all of the other buttons on the vest) due to the fact that all of the other buttons and buttonholes on the vest are spaced close enough together that the buttons can be button and look excellent and never damage the vest.

Here are come detailed descriptions of the angle on the center of the bottom of each side of the vest:

A straightaway angle is "northeast/southwest" on the right side and "northwest/southeast" on the left side.

A spread angle is "east northeast/west southwest" on the right side and "west northwest/east southeast" on the left side.

A pointed angle is "north northeast/south southwest" on the right side and "north northwest/south southeast" on the left side.

All of the above all make the following for the vest (and the jacket and pants) excellent provided that the vest, jacket and pants are well tailored enough: fit, comfort, appearance and shape, drape or shape and drape.

Yet, with all of the above, the rule below regarding the bottom button on vests (which, FWIW, does not apply to the following kinds of vests: double breasted suit, odd, tuxedo and formal odd vests and single breasted tuxedo and formal odd vests) is still followed and not broken.

Why no men's garment is designed to be fastened by the bottom button:

King Edward VII, "Bertie", son of Victoria (1841 - 1910, King 1901 - 1910) was so heavy that he could not get the bottom button fastened on his vest or to be more historically kind, maybe he just forgot. His subjects taking it as a fashion statement followed his lead and today no man's suit, sports jacket or vest is designed to button the bottom button. The tradition of not buttoning the bottom button may have also come from the early waistcoats, which were very long. It may have been out of necessity of being able to walk that the bottom buttons were left undone.

All of the above is absolutely a win/win situation!
 

JimInSoCalif

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The short answer is don't fasten the bottom button on your vest, jacket, or cardigan.

Happy New Year, Jim.
 

voxsartoria

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There should be no confusion on this issue, but unfortunately, many SB RTW vests are cut so that the bottom button can still be buttoned. It really should be cut so that you cannot do this, similar to the bottom button on multi-button-front jacket.

So, when you leave such a RTW vest unbuttoned at the bottom, it still looks off, although better than if you went ahead and did up the whole front. You get a bit more cred than the toff who who is bound up completely in vest buttons...but not a lot, so don't lord it over him at Appleby's, for in truth, you're both in the shitter.

Also, almost always missing on RTW vests is the hole for a watch chain. It is very iGenty to have a chain that goes through one of the buttonholes...that's only two steps away from the pith helmet.


- B
 

Film Noir Buff

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Originally Posted by voxsartoria
There should be no confusion on this issue, but unfortunately, many SB RTW vests are cut so that the bottom button can still be buttoned. It really should be cut so that you cannot do this, similar to the bottom button on multi-button-front jacket.
Just like the label warning not to dry cats off in the microwave?
Originally Posted by voxsartoria
So, when you leave such a RTW vest unbuttoned at the bottom, it still looks off, although better than if you went ahead and did up the whole front. You get a bit more cred than the toff who who is bound up completely in vest buttons...but not a lot, so don't lord it over him at Appleby's, for in truth, you're both in the shitter.
Appleby's is the official restaurant of both iGent's and Trekkies [/quote]Also, almost always missing on RTW vests is the hole for a watch chain. It is very iGenty to have a chain that goes through one of the buttonholes...that's only two steps away from the pith helmet. - B[/quote] Better than the pith helmet is this most iGent accessory of dem all.
 

Dragon

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I don`t button the bottom, and often leave the top unbuttoned too.
 

le.gentleman

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With regard to the bottom button of the waistcoat, there are even a few more theories out there. For eveningwear, I would suggest however to button all the buttons and NOT leave the bottom one unfastend.

Originally Posted by OxxfordSJLINY
Just buy one of the following types of single breasted vests (if you choose to buy a single breasted vest): 5 X 4 button, 6 X 5 button or 7 X 6 button (the bottom of the center of each side of the vest should have what is called a straight away angle (just as casual as it is formal making this angle supremely versatile) that is neither spread nor pointed.

The following angles on the center of the bottom of each side of the vest should be avoided due to minimal versatility or no versatility: what is called the spread angle (formal or very formal but not very casual or not casual at all) as well as what is called the pointed angle (much less formal and often casual or very casual but not very formal or not formal at all) on the center of each side of the vest.

The button configurations above are the perfect solution. The bottom button is always unbuttoned due to the fact that it can never be buttoned. The bottom button and button hole that are each on the angle are spaced far enough apart that the bottom button cannot be buttoned without looking ludicrous and, most likely, damaging the vest sooner or later or, more likely, sooner rather than later.

Yet, you can button all of the buttons on the vest that can be buttoned (which is all of the other buttons on the vest) due to the fact that all of the other buttons and buttonholes on the vest are spaced close enough together that the buttons can be button and look excellent and never damage the vest.

Here are come detailed descriptions of the angle on the center of the bottom of each side of the vest:

A straightaway angle is "northeast/southwest" on the right side and "northwest/southeast" on the left side.

A spread angle is "east northeast/west southwest" on the right side and "west northwest/east southeast" on the left side.

A pointed angle is "north northeast/south southwest" on the right side and "north northwest/south southeast" on the left side.

All of the above all make the following for the vest (and the jacket and pants) excellent provided that the vest, jacket and pants are well tailored enough: fit, comfort, appearance and shape, drape or shape and drape.

Yet, with all of the above, the rule below regarding the bottom button on vests (which, FWIW, does not apply to the following kinds of vests: double breasted suit, odd, tuxedo and formal odd vests and single breasted tuxedo and formal odd vests) is still followed and not broken.

Why no men's garment is designed to be fastened by the bottom button:

King Edward VII, "Bertie", son of Victoria (1841 - 1910, King 1901 - 1910) was so heavy that he could not get the bottom button fastened on his vest or to be more historically kind, maybe he just forgot. His subjects taking it as a fashion statement followed his lead and today no man's suit, sports jacket or vest is designed to button the bottom button. The tradition of not buttoning the bottom button may have also come from the early waistcoats, which were very long. It may have been out of necessity of being able to walk that the bottom buttons were left undone.

All of the above is absolutely a win/win situation!
 

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