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21st century women can be difficult

SirGrotius

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Originally Posted by Gibonius
My wife and I are both "progressive," but we understand that if either of us is staying home, we'd be expected to do the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, etc.

To wit, currently my wife is working 60-70 hours finishing up her PhD. I work maybe 30 hours a week (and earn more money, but that's irrelevant). I do most all the cooking, we split cleaning depending on how much she can deal with each week. Last year, I was the one working crazy hours, and she picked up the slack. It's a partnership, not a duel over social conventions of gender roles.

It sounds like the OP's wife hasn't really rectified the differences between her actions (basically a housewife) with her "progressive" philosophy, and is left without an equal role in the partnership of the marriage.


This was very much us (she has a PhD, and I an advanced degree but make the money). Once the baby came into the picture our relationship dynamic crashed. She does not like the idea of being a housewife, and has rebelled against doing housewife things so I'm stuck on the **** end in many different ways.
 

SirGrotius

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Originally Posted by kwilkinson
If you get a divorce, and the XBeezy goes on and marries another dude, do you still have to pay alimony? I know you still pay child support.
No alimony. Pre-nup.
worship.gif
Don't think it's at that point yet, as we had sex yesterday (really the only thing that matters). Others have mentioned it's my side of the story, and that's true. Here are her points:
  • Having a baby means you're always on
  • She's the one that gets up at night (I take over between 6 - 9 am on weekdays, 6 am - 12 pm or later weekends)
  • I (the male) still sneak in things like going to the gym, going out to lunches, etc. (funny how I have to "sneak" into them)
I've pressed her to work part-time again but shockingly she's not into it. I'm truly surprised, as she was successful before.
 

SirGrotius

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Originally Posted by Bradden
O.P.

... Some pointers.

1) Talk WE not HER if you come up with solutions together she may take stock and help out more.

2) Batch cooking or slow cookers are your friend. Until you get out of the baby stage do what ever is easier to get a hold on dinner. When you cook, cook enough for a couple of days. Learn to use the slowcooker, dump what you want in the morning... dinner is ready when you come home.

3) De-clutter make cleaning easier not harder. designate one room as a play room and confine the mess.

4) Encourage your wife to get the stroller out. The fresh air is a wonder cure as well as all the positive attention a baby brings from the outside world. You have to fight cabin fever.

5) Show some appreciation for what she is doing, she is raising your child. I know you are supporting her. Even if you have to fake it, it works.

6) This took me a while.. Learn to enjoy your kids, I now come home and spend time with my kids as my "Unwind time" it is all about perspective, I turned a chore into the best part of my day.


Very helpful.

Lots of good responses in this thread. I'll follow up with how things turn out. Funny, usually I go on this forum to find out the correct fit for APCs.
teacha.gif
 

Carlisle Blues

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@ SirGrotius I have actually done both. Prior to having a child I had my own practice with several offices, also teaching Master's degree candidates at a university. Since having a child. I have been the primary caregiver to my child since the moment he was born while doing those tasks which are traditionally viewed as male and female role oriented. Including cooking, cleaning, climbing on roofs, chopping trees down etc. If I had to say which was easier it is the professional life. Nonetheless, I would never trade places with anyone as taking care of my child is the most important thing I will ever do in my life and I never want to let another person "raise" the child in a day care when I have the opportunity and the wherewithal to do so.. That being said, I am looking forward to a vacation in July for a few days without my child as I need to take care of myself. I strive for balance knowing that it is an elusive, albeit attainable , goal. Good luck with your discussion SirGrotius
 

Joffrey

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Originally Posted by SirGrotius
No alimony. Pre-nup.
worship.gif
Don't think it's at that point yet, as we had sex yesterday (really the only thing that matters). Others have mentioned it's my side of the story, and that's true. Here are her points:
  • Having a baby means you're always on
  • She's the one that gets up at night (I take over between 6 - 9 am on weekdays, 6 am - 12 pm or later weekends)
  • I (the male) still sneak in things like going to the gym, going out to lunches, etc. (funny how I have to "sneak" into them)
I've pressed her to work part-time again but shockingly she's not into it. I'm truly surprised, as she was successful before.

She doesn't want to do housework and doesn't want to restart her career. Maybe she's tired/overwhelmed? Hence the lack of motivation to do anything beyond what's required with the baby? Maybe she needs a vacation, say 1 week to herself to recharge her batteries. Or I suppose just the two of you (say a long weekend with the baby in the care of a relative). PS - I'm 26, far from married no little Jodum5's running around.
 

Runningman411

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How old are you and your wife? I ask because I honestly don't see how a traditional marriage can work these days. Most women under 30 have no idea how to cook and, because they're often an only child or one of two, have no idea how to raise children. And, because of housekeepers in many households, have no idea how to clean either. So, other than having a womb and being able to bear children, modern women don't really seem suited for the housewife job.

I've seen it many times with even people my age (36). Guy and wife meet each other in college or something. Both are pursuing degrees or even graduate degrees. When they're done with school, they decide to marry because that's the logical next step. What next? Well, kids of course. However, and for whatever reason, the guy thinks that having a kid will somehow transform that binge drinking, eating out every night, career woman into Susy Homemaker!

Here's my tip...Regardless of how much money you earn, DO NOT EVER offer your wife the opportunity to be a stay at home mom. Do not hint at it while you're engaged. Do not believe whatever fairy tale stories you've heard or what your dad might have said. It just doesn't work these days. It worked for your dad because mom didn't question how many hours he worked a week or gave him grief for missing dance recitals, soccer games, etc. He worked all day and came home to a clean house, clean kids and a home cooked meal. Hell, mom might have even overlooked an affair or two if he kept it discreet. It takes a certain type of woman to do it and they're few and far between these days.

While being at home with a young child really isn't that bad, she will think it is. This results in resentment for both husband and wife and is not worth any perceived benefit of having a stay at home mom for your kids. Listen, they are simply not going to grow up like you did.

Put the kids in day care and split the household duties.
 

Dakota rube

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Originally Posted by Runningman411
How old are you and your wife? I ask because I honestly don't see how a traditional marriage can work these days. Most women under 30 have no idea how to cook and, because they're often an only child or one of two, have no idea how to raise children. And, because of housekeepers in many households, have no idea how to clean either. So, other than having a womb and being able to bear children, modern women don't really seem suited for the housewife job.

I am sure this will be blamed on my generation.
confused.gif
 

BlackShoes

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Originally Posted by Mr. White
It's easy to say "change the channel." It's harder to work patiently to overcome problems. Most couples who have children together, eventually marry each other. This isn't by accident. Women simply cannot live with a man indefinitely if he refuses to make every normal and usual form of commitment to her. Imagine if a man never introduced his lover to his parents. Or if he kept his lover a secret to his friends. She'd feel pretty small. Same goes for not tying the knot. You may not feel that way. Virtually all women do. If you want her to stay around, marry her. Otherwise, flip channels. Your choice.

"Pledge half your assets and a significant chunk of your future income to me, indefinitely, no matter what unreasonable behavior I may undertake, or I refuse to continue this relationship". Nice

It's easy to bury your head in the sand, go with what society expects of you and hope for the best. Taking responsibility for your own happiness and eschewing the burdens others attempt to place upon you, takes guts and awareness.
 

yachtie

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Originally Posted by SirGrotius
I'm a new dad, and my wife and I have been married about five years. I married a very progressive, 21st century woman. We dated a long time before marriage, too. I work long hours (60+ a week), but bring in a comfortable standard of living. My wife does not work anymore. She had an on-and-off again career in education, but never needed to work. Here's the rub, she WANTS to stay home for our newborn, and I'm cool with that but now that I'm a little older and worn out I wouldn't mind having married a less-progressive woman. I'm more stressed out when I come home than when I'm working. I come home and I know it sounds ridiculous, but I'd just love to have the smell of dinner in the house. Never. Even the mention of that expectation would be enough to have me labeled as a neanderthal. We have a house cleaner, and now we're looking in to hiring a nanny part-time too. My wife takes care of the baby, but I watch him mornings and for a good part of the weekends. When I get home from work I want to unwind, but instead I have to jump into taking care of the kid. There's a part of me that wonders if I'm an unreasonable savage and there's another part that wonders if being a liberal, 21st century male means I've lost my balls.
devil.gif

Your wife clearly doesn't have a good idea of the division of labor when the wife stays at home. Nanny? Housekeeper? One kid? WHY?
Originally Posted by Runningman411
How old are you and your wife? I ask because I honestly don't see how a traditional marriage can work these days. Most women under 30 have no idea how to cook and, because they're often an only child or one of two, have no idea how to raise children. And, because of housekeepers in many households, have no idea how to clean either. So, other than having a womb and being able to bear children, modern women don't really seem suited for the housewife job. I've seen it many times with even people my age (36). Guy and wife meet each other in college or something. Both are pursuing degrees or even graduate degrees. When they're done with school, they decide to marry because that's the logical next step. What next? Well, kids of course. However, and for whatever reason, the guy thinks that having a kid will somehow transform that binge drinking, eating out every night, career woman into Susy Homemaker! Here's my tip...Regardless of how much money you earn, DO NOT EVER offer your wife the opportunity to be a stay at home mom. Do not hint at it while you're engaged. Do not believe whatever fairy tale stories you've heard or what your dad might have said. It just doesn't work these days. It worked for your dad because mom didn't question how many hours he worked a week or gave him grief for missing dance recitals, soccer games, etc. He worked all day and came home to a clean house, clean kids and a home cooked meal. Hell, mom might have even overlooked an affair or two if he kept it discreet. It takes a certain type of woman to do it and they're few and far between these days. While being at home with a young child really isn't that bad, she will think it is. This results in resentment for both husband and wife and is not worth any perceived benefit of having a stay at home mom for your kids. Listen, they are simply not going to grow up like you did. Put the kids in day care and split the household duties.
If someone doesn't realize that having kids is life altering, they haven't really grown up. Stay at home works if each understands that there is a division of labor depending on availability. Here's what we do- stay at home wife, six, soon to be seven kids: wife handles kids during the day, and we split kid duties when I'm home. Chores not taken care of by the help are split- now that the kids are getting older, they're taking more of these on. Wife cooks almost exclusively. We both have a philosophical distaste of nannies and have never employed one. The dad's time at home with the kids is precious- enjoy it. Works just fine.
 

nootje

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Originally Posted by Fuuma
Like kinda be together but not completely and be like, ready to bail at the first time of trouble as everything is in order? You are against marriage, you just don't know it yet.

But why should the financial component be the glue that keeps those marriages together when things get rough?

(for clarification, even by eu standards the dutch ones are draconian for the husband and are targeted for change).

perhaps ive seen too many marriages **** up a guy completely, with the woman playing the victim and getting away with everything...
 

Syl

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Didn't read through 7 pages but here's my perspective.

Being a new parent is TOUGH. Honestly, for us, it was a (and still is) a period of high stress, frayed nerves and short tempers. A newborn is tiring, mentally and physically, and it is VERY easy to take it out on your spouse.
Both feel that the other isn't doing enough, and nothing will change the opinion of a sleep-deprived mind.

Our kid is a bit older now and I absolutely love spending time with her now.

It gets better!
 

patrickBOOTH

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This sounds familiar to my family growing up. In this situation I am your newborn. Let me just say that my mother is a wonderful woman and she means well and I love her to death, but my father created a monster. I never had a homecooked meal growing up because my mother didn't like cooking so we ate at restaurants, my mother always got her way and manipulated every situation to make it like she was being victimized when in fact she was a princess. I feel like if you have issues they should be spoken about civilally, realistically, and early or it will no doubt get worse with time until your 60 hours per week turns to 80, 100 and then you are dead.

My current long term girlfriend used to be a full-blown lesbian and she would have no issue having dinner ready, whether it was made, or picked up for when I got home. In fact, she does it often and she doesn't even live with me full-time. I don't think that it is a gender thing, it is just a decency thing. If you are home all day get things done. That is a part of working together in a relationship. I think if your wife tries to pin a gender role thing on you it is an excuse to not do a certain share of responsibilities. It might be walking on thin ice, but you should try your best to approach the issue in a way where she is not offended. I feel like if she cares about you she would want to help and take your feelings into consideration.
 

texas_jack

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Originally Posted by Bradden
O.P.

You need to have a talk with your wife, I have been in your position and there is a temporary pain. It seems we put much more effort into parenting then our parents did, there are so many "experts" in raisng a child that we neglect to do what is natural, we over think things and spend more energy parenting then we do our vocations.

This being your first child your wife probably works as hard as you do, you can take a break from work when you need to, take a lunch on your schedule. Your wife however is held hostage by your child's schedule, this can be a small torture, especially when your child decides that they do not want to nap that day or decide that throwing up their food is more fun then just eating. Parenting's toll is culminative the lost sleep, the lack of control, the lack of touch with the outside world or lack of touch with your former life.

Some pointers.

1) Talk WE not HER if you come up with solutions together she may take stock and help out more.

2) Batch cooking or slow cookers are your friend. Until you get out of the baby stage do what ever is easier to get a hold on dinner. When you cook, cook enough for a couple of days. Learn to use the slowcooker, dump what you want in the morning... dinner is ready when you come home.

3) De-clutter make cleaning easier not harder. designate one room as a play room and confine the mess.

4) Encourage your wife to get the stroller out. The fresh air is a wonder cure as well as all the positive attention a baby brings from the outside world. You have to fight cabin fever.

5) Show some appreciation for what she is doing, she is raising your child. I know you are supporting her. Even if you have to fake it, it works.

6) This took me a while.. Learn to enjoy your kids, I now come home and spend time with my kids as my "Unwind time" it is all about perspective, I turned a chore into the best part of my day.


^ I don't have kids but this sounds legit
 

texas_jack

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Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH
This sounds familiar to my family growing up. In this situation I am your newborn. Let me just say that my mother is a wonderful woman and she means well and I love her to death, but my father created a monster. I never had a homecooked meal growing up because my mother didn't like cooking so we ate at restaurants, my mother always got her way and manipulated every situation to make it like she was being victimized when in fact she was a princess. I feel like if you have issues they should be spoken about civilally, realistically, and early or it will no doubt get worse with time until your 60 hours per week turns to 80, 100 and then you are dead.

My current long term girlfriend used to be a full-blown lesbian and she would have no issue having dinner ready, whether it was made, or picked up for when I got home. In fact, she does it often and she doesn't even live with me full-time. I don't think that it is a gender thing, it is just a decency thing. If you are home all day get things done. That is a part of working together in a relationship. I think if your wife tries to pin a gender role thing on you it is an excuse to not do a certain share of responsibilities. It might be walking on thin ice, but you should try your best to approach the issue in a way where she is not offended. I feel like if she cares about you she would want to help and take your feelings into consideration.


You've had an interesting life.
 

Manton

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Originally Posted by texas_jack
You've had an interesting life.

Indeed, there is some good material there.
 

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