2010 Olympic Men's Ice Hockey Thread

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by ramuman

Also, look at Sid's regular season stats since he came in to the league - especially this year.

i mean this is the point ... right in line with the top of the league. Gretzky was in the absolute stratosphere compared to everybody else. Hence the major

when the Great One's name is brought in to a Crosby conversation.

 

[StephenHero]

Originally Posted by LA Guy

Wow. Get a brain, moran.

To all the other Americans - your guys played an incredible game. Ryan Miller was spectacular the entire tournament, and you guys may have taken it if he had been a Black Floridian roller derby champ.

Is this the post where you ignore the fallacy of your previous idiotic argument and call someone a moron without any substantive rebuttal? You're a gem.

 

[ramuman]

Originally Posted by gomestar

I agree, I am simply saying where the 'hate' comes from. The media blows it up way too much, "Canadian Kool-Aid" as some like to call it. (but I still think AO is the better player).

I agree the hype is a bit much, but Ovie is touted as "the greatest hockey player in the world" about as often as Sid is. Like I said, the NHL needs these guys. On the ice, they make hockey exciting and off the ice, the worst you hear is them arguing over cab fare.

I'm really excited about the crop out there now and coming up from the Canadian junior and European leagues. What hockey is getting are some guys with both personality and skill.

 

[ramuman]

Originally Posted by gomestar

i mean this is the point ... right in line with the top of the league. Gretzky was in the absolute stratosphere compared to everybody else. Hence the major

when the Great One's name is brought in to a Crosby conversation.
I agree, but Gretzky also played in a totally different era. The NHL is closer to that era now than 5 years ago, but it's not there. More to the point though, Crosby doesn't go out there and ask for this. I don't think he's at Gretzky's level, but neither were three of the four centers I listed (Sakic, Yzerman, and Francis). If Sidney were doing things that players in other sports do to stroke their egos, I could understand the hate. All I ever is that he shows up in his Land Rover at the arena, signs autographs for pretty much anyone along the way, puts in a hard shift after another, and leaves. If that's not a consummate hockey player, I don't know what is. In fact he reminds me a lot of Sakic and Yzerman, basically centers who a franchise built around, who always said and did the right things and retired as one of the best players at their position. The problem is the unfair comparison to that certain other Canadian born center. Even guys like Don Cherry are in the wrong for bringing that up one too many times.

 

[gomestar]

I don't see the AO hype as much, but it might be because of my location. But he has certainly been hyped much more in the past 1-2 years with the realization that this dude can bring a crowd. Look at what happened in DC, the hockey seen was pretty much a joke when I was there in 2007.

And the league does need these two players. And they both can deliver, the last few Pens/Caps games have been sensational. Even my brother who only watches hockey because I'm hogging the TV called me up last time they met with a "dude, are you watching this ****??? I need to see more"

 

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by ramuman

Also, is Kane not simply awesome? I'm looking forward to Sochi when we'll have most of these guys plus the new ones like Tavares.
Kane is awesome, just small... but Tavares is Canadian. Sorry.

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by ramuman

I agree, but Gretzky also played in a totally different era. The NHL is closer to that era now than 5 years ago, but it's not there.

right, hence my emphasis on separation between players and not just sheer points.

Originally Posted by ramuman

More to the point though, Crosby doesn't go out there and ask for this. I don't think he's at Gretzky's level, but neither were three of the four centers I listed (Sakic, Yzerman, and Francis). If Sidney were doing things that players in other sports do to stroke their egos, I could understand the hate. All I ever is that he shows up in his Land Rover at the arena, signs autographs of pretty much anyone along the way, puts in a hard shift after another, and leaves. If that's not a consummate hockey player, I don't know what is.

In fact he reminds me a lot of Sakic and Yzerman, basically centers who a franchise built around, who always said and did the right things and retired as one of the best players at their position. The problem is the unfair comparison to that certain other Canadian born center. Even guys like Don Cherry are in the wrong for bringing that up one too many times.

very fair point. I always like Crosby when he is the one acting and doing (except for that diving **** he used to do and that ball punching incident) ... and dislike the media's attention on solely him and not shared with other big impact people like Malkin (not that Malkin has a broadcast worthy face).

FWIW, having met Yzerman before, he is one hell of a class act. Major respect.

 

[L.R.]

I know several people who have met him/grew up in the same area. I have friends who have played hockey against him, and know friends of the nephew of the woman he's dating. (Convulated statement lol)

One of my friends lives near him, and she said he'll still play road hockey with her little cousins when he's home. He sounds like a down to earth nice guy.



One of my favourite aspects of the Crosby vs Ovechkin debate is that they're such different players. Crosby is a fluid playmaker, Ovechkin is an amazing skater/scorer. So hard to compare one on one, but both are amazing for the league.

 

[L.R.]

Originally Posted by ramuman

half wit ESPN and NBC commentators do so, it's not his fault.

He's played as well as anyone could've asked of him. He's currently not as complete as some of the great centers to retire recently (Yzerman, Lemieux, Sakic, Francis, etc.), but he's 22. Give him a break. He does nothing except carry himself well and do what's asked of him.


It's really amazing that crosby, ovechkin, malking and so many other stars are so young. They wont hit their prime for another 4-5 years, and yet they're amazing right now. The U.S. hockey team at the next olympics is going to be INSANE.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by gomestar

i mean this is the point ... right in line with the top of the league. Gretzky was in the absolute stratosphere compared to everybody else. Hence the major

when the Great One's name is brought in to a Crosby conversation.

Originally Posted by ramuman

I agree, but Gretzky also played in a totally different era. The NHL is closer to that era now than 5 years ago, but it's not there. In fact he reminds me a lot of Sakic and Yzerman, basically centers who a franchise built around, who always said and did the right things and retired as one of the best players at their position. The problem is the unfair comparison to that certain other Canadian born center. Even guys like Don Cherry are in the wrong for bringing that up one too many times.
I frankly think that Lemieux was a better player than Gretzky. Gretzky was essentially off-limits to the opposing team in a lot of ways. He didn't have to take the constant punishment and targeting that Lemieux and later players took. Gretzky also had an all-star line-up surrounding him for a lot of his career. That made things a hell of a lot easier for him in terms of racking up points. Lemieux, on the other hand, had to drag the pens kicking and screaming almost single-handedly to the cup. And despite all of the obstacles put in front of him, Lemieux came damned close to beating a lot of Gretzky's records. If he had the line-mates Gretzky had, or had been healthy more often, I'm positive Gretzky's records would have fallen. To switch topics a little, the thing that characterized Lemieux, and Yzerman for that matter, was that they were clutch players. Crosby redeemed himself a bit last night, but he really didn't deliver much throughout the tournament. He got a couple points here and there, and I saw some nice passes, but I couldn't help but notice how absent he seemed from most of the play compared to guys like Perry and Nash who are less skilled but were all over the place. You could always count on both Yzerman and Lemieux to ALWAYS be pushing hard and always be a major factor in play-off and other important games. I watched Crosby in the finals last year when they were playing Detroit and his play totally underwhelmed my expectations. I haven't seen any of the grit and determination I saw in players like Yzerman or Lemieux. It's nice to top scoring in the regular season, but it's in play-off games that it matters most. That said, he does seem like a humble and genuinely nice "kid." He's a good ambassador for the game as well as Canadian sports in general.

 

[Piobaire]

^ I knew one of the guys that the Oilers kept on payroll, just to **** up anyone that messed with Wayne.

 

[ramuman]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

^ I knew one of the guys that the Oilers kept on payroll, just to **** up anyone that messed with Wayne.

Messier?

 

[HEWSINATOR]

That was more Semenko's job.

 

[unjung]

Originally Posted by L.R.

It's really amazing that crosby, ovechkin, malking and so many other stars are so young. They wont hit their prime for another 4-5 years, and yet they're amazing right now. The U.S. hockey team at the next olympics is going to be INSANE.

You mean with all those Russians and Canadians (Staal brothers as well) playing for them?

 

[odoreater]

Originally Posted by unjung

You mean with all those Russians and Canadians (Staal brothers as well) playing for them?

The US team was the youngest team at the Olympics. I think that's what he was referring to.