2 button SB suit with 4 sleeve buttons - a rulebreaker?

[epa]

Most of my suits are three (3) button suits with three (3) sleeve buttons. I recently ordered a suit (the Holland&Sherry one I mentioned in another thread), and decided to have four (4) buttons on the sleeve, to get a bit of variety (actually, most of my sportcoats feature four sleeve buttons, and I like it). However, then I also decided to make it a two (2) button suit, for even more variety. Thus, I have suddenly realised that it will be a two button suit with four sleeve buttons (which means a lot of variety!).
However, this reeeeally big sleeve/breast button ratio (4/2=2) has started to worry me.

- Are there any "rules" about the relation between the number of buttons on the breast/sleeve? Such as that the difference should not be larger than one? I am actually not asking for any "taste" opinion, but rather for information on relevant sartorial rules. Anybody knows? I thank in advance for any information that may prevent me from becoming a sartorial outlaw (especially in view of what the suit will cost me, and considering that I intend it to be a formal business suit).

By the way, two more questions:

- How should the sleeve buttons be arranged (kissing, waterfall, separated)?
(Of course, I intend to wear the last one unbuttoned...).
- The suit is a dark blue one (but not what I understand to be "navy"). What colour should I choose for the lining? Bright red? Pink? Mauve? Or something more discreet?

 

[NoVaguy]

almost all of my better suits, including belvest, oxxford and paul stuart, whether 2 button or 3 button, come with 4 sleeve buttons.

the buttons should be kissing.

 

[GBR]

A good suit will have 4 buttons, kissing or slightly separated is a matter of preference with no specific rules.

 

[tiger02]

Originally Posted by GBR

A good suit will have 4 buttons, kissing or slightly separated is a matter of preference with no specific rules.
Slightly separated looks sloppy to me, like the maker didn't know how to make them kiss properly. Slightly overlapped has the same problem, though not to such an extent.

Four buttons is normal though; on a suit, three is too few. I like the minimalism of one sleeve button on a one button suit.

 

[Jovan]

Three is too few? It looks fine.

- How should the sleeve buttons be arranged (kissing, waterfall, separated)?
(Of course, I intend to wear the last one unbuttoned...).

Sleeve buttons are merely a matter of preference. Get what you want. Waterfalling buttons look classy, in my opinion. But please don't leave the last one unbuttoned. Just use them when you need to.

 

[Jovan]

- The suit is a dark blue one (but not what I understand to be "navy&quot. What colour should I choose for the lining? Bright red? Pink? Mauve? Or something more discreet?

Doesn't matter. No one is going to see the inside of your jacket, with the possible exception of when you make gestures. A striped sleeve lining (usually white with black stripes) is always stylish.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by Jovan

But please don't leave the last one unbuttoned. Just use them when you need to.
Around here we do not mind so much looking tacky...
I always wear one sleeve button unbuttoned (if the buttonhole is working), except if I am going to be in a business situation in which I want to make sure not to be taken for tacky.
And the way the sleeve terminates actually looks better with one button unbuttoned. Just like your shirt looks nicer with one or two buttons unbuttoned when you go sans tie.
Also, I hear that there is a lot of RTW with functioning buttonholes, so I guess that "showing it off" will soon not be considered tacky any more. Just like unbuttoning your shirt collar does not mean that you are "showing off" that your shirt has functioning buttonholes...

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by Jovan

Doesn't matter. No one is going to see the inside of your jacket, with the possible exception of when you make gestures. A striped sleeve lining (usually white with black stripes) is always stylish.
Well, you actually see the inside of peoples jackets quite often, for example, around here people often take the jacket of at lunch, also at business lunches. And I always like it when I see people that have some kind of "surprising" lining, it has a nice touch of "dandiness" about it, IMO. It gives a playful tone to a business suit, IMO. I tend to like people who look like they know to work but also to play.

 

[oxxford4me]

sleeve buttons should be "balanced" and should of "two or four on the sleeves" and "kissing"...

 

[Manton]

I think three buttons on a suit sleeve is more Italian and four more Anglo-American. Three on an odd jacket is a bit more common everywhere, but four on a jacket is also quite common.

There is a Naples tradition which held:

DB suit = four buttons
SB suit = three buttons
DB odd jacket = two buttons
SB odd jacket - one button

I'm not sure how widely observed that is anymore.

 

[lakewolf]

Originally Posted by epa

Well, you actually see the inside of peoples jackets quite often, for example, around here people often take the jacket of at lunch, also at business lunches. And I always like it when I see people that have some kind of "surprising" lining, it has a nice touch of "dandiness" about it, IMO. It gives a playful tone to a business suit, IMO. I tend to like people who look like they know to work but also to play.

I'd go with purple or lavander lining...

The problem is then you have also to coordinate the lining color with your shirt and tie

 

[epa]

This autumn I had an odd jacket made MTM by Zegna, and the salesman actually said that the traditional thing was three buttons on the sleeves on suits and odd jackets, and that the use of four buttons was basically "invented" (or at least popularised) by Zegna.
Well, you hear so many things...

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by lakewolf

I'd go with purple or lavander lining...

The problem is then you have also to coordinate the lining color with your shirt and tie

Hey, thanks, I hadn't thought about that... One more thing to consider early in the morning...

 

[Jovan]

Originally Posted by epa

Well, you actually see the inside of peoples jackets quite often, for example, around here people often take the jacket of at lunch, also at business lunches. And I always like it when I see people that have some kind of "surprising" lining, it has a nice touch of "dandiness" about it, IMO. It gives a playful tone to a business suit, IMO. I tend to like people who look like they know to work but also to play.
You didn't seem to get my tone. I was saying it's okay to have lime green lining if you want.

The sleeve button thing isn't about showing off, it's about style. A lot of my friends have working buttons on their casual Gap jackets or whatever and they never unbutton one. I don't think the shirt analogy works either. It just looks bad, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by lakewolf

The problem is then you have also to coordinate the lining color with your shirt and tie

Coordinate your tie with the lining colour because someone may catch a glimpse of it? No. I'm sorry, that's ridiculous.

 

[summej2]

Originally Posted by Manton

I think three buttons on a suit sleeve is more Italian and four more Anglo-American. Three on an odd jacket is a bit more common everywhere, but four on a jacket is also quite common.

There is a Naples tradition which held:

DB suit = four buttons
SB suit = three buttons
DB odd jacket = two buttons
SB odd jacket - one button

I'm not sure how widely observed that is anymore.

Yes, older Brioni, whether SB or DB, invariably have three sleeve buttons.

As for following the Naples tradition, my older (60's and before) SB American made suits usually have three.