18 East

[VinceCompost]

Anyway, why don't you think this answers your question? AC gave a few reasons why he fit the sizing the way he does, and why he makes the recommendations he does. I think the people posting fit pics here who go one size up look great and don't look like their clothes are too big! (I also think the people going TTS look great too).

For reasons I stated earlier: there's a difference between a loose-fitting garment that is the correct size for the wearer (i.e. it doesn't leave you exposed in the middle of the street), and one that is simply one size bigger (e.g. wearing an M when you're technically an S). The final effect is quite different. The first involves a change to only certain garment dimensions, while keeping others the same. The second is effectively just scaling up all dimensions at the same rate (that's an oversimplificiation, as grading is actually more complicated than this, but for argument's sake...).

From the post you quoted (and other comments in this thread) it is not clear to me if what is meant by "I would have basically everything we make fit approximately 1.5x larger" should be taken literally. I.e. whether A) Antonio would simply prefer to sell an M but label it as an S. Or instead, B), he'd keep the overall loose-fitting look of an M, but adapt it to fit an S in the areas of the garment that count (waist, collar size, sleeve length).

I'm guessing the answer is A). But what I don't understand is why. I'm sure Antonio has good reasons for doing things this way, it's just unclear to me what those reasons are. Other than possibly the explanation I gave earlier.

 

[Rookoobay]

A correctly fitting garment fits snugly at the neck or waist.

not only is this subjective in general, but it differs from garment to garment (based on fabric, cut eg. thigh measurement, etc).

all of my favorite pants throughout the years have required a belt/cinch to keep up and I've never (a) been caught in your bathroom scenario or (b) exposed myself in the middle of the street.

 

[VinceCompost]

not only is this subjective in general, but it differs from garment to garment (based on fabric, cut eg. thigh measurement, etc).

Please elaborate. I'm imagining that you wear pants that fit tightly around the thighs but are gaping at the waist.

 

[malcb33]

I'm now going to contradict myself by offering a likely explanation: not everyone is ready for the "advanced" look. Buy some genuinely oversized pants in a size too small, and you'll simply be left with pants you can't close at the waist. So by recommending sizing up rather than making the clothes genuinely oversized, purchasers are free to choose how they wear them.

Antonio has written multiple times in the thread —helpfully and informatively, IMO—that he’d prefer to size every size 1.5x larger than they are currently sized, but that it would confuse most buyers who expect a small to fit a certain way, and he is trying to minimize returns (for, I presume, both business and environmental reasons).

If I'm understanding you right, I think you've answered your own question, because Antonio wants to make the brand accessible to people that don't want a super oversized look as well as those who do. I guess that decision has trade-offs, but I'd imagine it makes more sense commercially

I also feel that the "correct fit" is subjective, so not everyone has the same opinion on how they want their clothes to fit. This correct fit seems to be a very CM thing, which is why I asked before.

 

[dalevy]

I size up to M in goreckis, one more than the S I usually buy because I find the goreckis a little short. The waist unstretched is one size too big for my waist. I cinch and tie no problem.

 

[VinceCompost]

If I'm understanding you right, I think you've answered your own question, because Antonio wants to make the brand accessible to people that don't want a super oversized look as well as those who do. I guess that decision has trade-offs, but I'd imagine it makes more sense commercially

I also feel that the "correct fit" is subjective, so not everyone has the same opinion on how they want their clothes to fit. This correct fit seems to be a very CM thing, which is why I asked before.

Of course, we're talking about clothes. You can do basically anything you like. I'm not interested in enforcing some arbitrary rules. What I am interested in, however, are clothes that are flattering for the wearer. And while this is still subjective of course, it has to be said that a lot of people make some pretty terrible mistakes in this area (and I wouldn't exclude myself from this statement either).

Also, lets not forget that this discussion began because somebody had followed the advice to size up, only to find - for whatever reason - that their pants were falling down. That wouldn't happen if 18 East took the other approach. Hence my question.

But yes, the most likely reason for this is simply allowing people to choose if they want an oversized look or not.

 

[Rookoobay]

Please elaborate. I'm imagining that you wear pants that fit tightly around the thighs but are gaping at the waist.

I'm not sure why you would imagine that. it's far more likely that tight thighs = snug/tight waist in my experience (especially when I was biking daily).

 

[VinceCompost]

I'm not sure why you would imagine that. it's far more likely that tight thighs = snug/tight waist in my experience (though that was more the case when I was biking daily).

Simply because you provided no further information and therefore allowed my vivid imagination to fill in the rest. How does this differ from garment to garment, fabric to fabric?

 

[NickPollica]

The way we size allows us to get the most people into our product, which has always been the point. We could, in theory, make our cargo with a much smaller waist and a larger leg, but then the people who love it but aren’t comfortable with bigger fits wouldn’t be able to jump in. Our way of doing it includes the most people. As for Goreckis falling of the waist, I don’t actually understand how this is physically possible with the drawstring waistband if it is cinched and tied. I size mine 2 up from my normal size and it isn’t an issue.

 

[Bearjohnson]

Gentlemen. There's a solution we aren't seeing here.

If a garment is too big, simply gain more weight. ???

 

[robat19]

I just buy my normal size and everything fits me for the most part.

 

[VinceCompost]

The way we size allows us to get the most people into our product, which has always been the point. We could, in theory, make our cargo with a much smaller waist and a larger leg, but then the people who love it but aren’t comfortable with bigger fits wouldn’t be able to jump in. Our way of doing it includes the most people. As for Goreckis falling of the waist, I don’t actually understand how this is physically possible with the drawstring waistband if it is cinched and tied. I size mine 2 up from my normal size and it isn’t an issue.

Thanks, that's what I suspected. And with drawstring waists I agree that it's not (or at least shouldn't be) a major issue.

I don't have experience with any of your collared items so couldn't comment on them, but I would have thought that this would be more problematic.

 

[MichaelPemulis]

Just got my koston green goreckis, they are awesome. Just wanted to confirm that this brand doesn’t run bad colors. Super super stoked I also managed to grab the prospect parka, this fabric goes hard. Not sure why it would be hard to work this color into a wardrobe, goes great with black, navy, grey. Haha.

 

[d4nimal]

The accessibility issue makes sense for the general sizing approach, even if I also prefer my waist measurement to fit at my size for the proportional sizing intended by the designer. This season Lemaire made some wide leg cords with a high rise for Uniqlo that are insanely good - so much so that I ended up eventually buying all the colors of it - but I can see that they have been getting returned a lot by stock on the site. The waist fits TTS, but the legs are wide and a bit cropped. I think it confuses and/or challenges a lot of guys who weren't sure about/didn't intend to have the silhouette. I'm sure it doesn't matter as much to Uniqlo's bottom line because they're eventually selling, but for a small business to have such a large proportion of returns there's a lot more on the line.

That being said, though, I also agree about a drawstring waist should really make the whole thing a non-issue except in extreme cases.

 

[Simulacra]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

I definitely haven't excessively sized up. I'm a 33 in all my pants which usually translates to medium. So one size up would be a large.

This means the pants hang on my hips, me needing to lift them every 5 mins or so. Any active movement and I feel they'll drop. I don't mind how that looks with a drop-crotch, but Im not moving excessively.

A part of me feels belt loops would have added a layer of "security" to the drawstrings, but that kinda defeats the point. I'll definitely knot the draw strings more rigourously but that's just my experience.