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٭٭٭ No Man Walks Alone - Official Affiliate Thread ٭٭٭ (a.k.a. I shouldn't have slept on it)

professor

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This seems like an odd line to take after both your recent actions and the thoughtful interview with Simon. I don't think Mr. Six even so much as suggested that he'd take his business elsewhere if you stuck with FedEx; he just said that when he has the choice he chooses UPS, to support a unionized workforce. That seems like a totally reasonable thing to inform one's choice, when choosing between suppliers of what, to the user, is basically commodity-like. (To my mind it's reasonable even when it's not commodity-like, but especially so in that case.) It's not commodity-like in your case if the rates really are that different. But you've already shown that you're willing to let your principles influence your business, so why is this where you bring out "everything must be a battle"?
And I think Greg is saying that we all choose our battles, and he's surprised that this is the one people are choosing. So, what color traveler should I get? Seriously, I'm terribly indecisive.
 

oulipien

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And I think Greg is saying that we all choose our battles, and he's surprised that this is the one people are choosing. So, what color traveler should I get? Seriously, I'm terribly indecisive.
I just didn't read it as battling at all: as I said, I didn't read the initial message as combative or threatening at all. It's a note of something that might be worth taking into account, not an ultimatum.
 

gdl203

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This seems like an odd line to take after both your recent actions and the thoughtful interview with Simon. I don't think Mr. Six even so much as suggested that he'd take his business elsewhere if you stuck with FedEx; he just said that when he has the choice he chooses UPS, to support a unionized workforce. That seems like a totally reasonable thing to inform one's choice, when choosing between suppliers of what, to the user, is basically commodity-like. (To my mind it's reasonable even when it's not commodity-like, but especially so in that case.) It's not commodity-like in your case if the rates really are that different. But you've already shown that you're willing to let your principles influence your business, so why is this where you bring out "everything must be a battle"?
I’m just confused, slightly shocked, by the argument. Once again, when is the last time you asked a shop if their transportation suppliers are union or not? And then voiced a “strong” disagreement with it? That was my point. Where does this stop? People here used to patronize a shop literally called unionmade and they weren’t selling a single item that was in fact union made. In that case, I understand any backlash (which they never seemed to receive btw). But there’s nothing about us that says we take a stance on unionization. Conflagrating this with our Meals on Wheels donations or our work with antiracist organizations is kinda ridiculous IMO. They’re completely different issues altogether. We’re not a vegan company either - does this also mean some sort of hypocrisy?
 

Darkside

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I’m just confused, slightly shocked, by the argument. Once again, when is the last time you asked a shop if their transportation suppliers are union or not? And then voiced a “strong” disagreement with it? That was my point. Where does this stop?
That is THE question.
 

oulipien

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Once again, when is the last time you asked a shop if their transportation suppliers are union or not?
This would probably happen a lot more often if I spent more time on message boards with the folks running the shops, where lots of details about the running of the shop were discussed! I also don't think I've ever seen, except right here and now, shop owners say "we switched vendors from X to Y because X was killing our margin". One aspect of the greater familiarity cultivated here is that people will say things to you that they wouldn't say to other businesses.
 

Mr. Six

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I probably shouldn't have introduced a complicated issue in a hit-and-run way when I've got work to do. Or responded to the initial response with a set of questions. I thought they were clarifying but maybe not.

To state a couple of priors: I'm a definitely a "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism" person. I'm also highly skeptical that my individual choices around consumption ultimately affect anything other than my own sense of wellbeing. Nevertheless, when I have some information about sources of supply, I do try to factor that into my choices.

As @oulipien pointed out, I think this particular case is not analogous to the hypotheticals that you raise, and I think that you're engaged in a bit of slippery slope reductionism that isn't helpful. Here, we're talking about a commodity shipping choice in which one provider is publicly anti-union and the other is not pro-union but has a unionized work force. You asked whether we have an issues with Fedex. I was making a narrow point that given a choice between the two, I prefer the one with a unionized workforce. That doesn't require me to use only union shops for all my purchases or to walk away from stores that I like because they use Fedex or aren't themselves unionized. And if the sustainability of your business means that you have to shift to Fedex, I'll accept that completely and continue to be a happy customer.

That said, I do factor things like union labor into choices when I can. And when businesses go out of their way to tell me something about themselves and their choices, I also factor that into where I spend my money. I don't, however, place primacy on unionized workplaces to the exclusion of any other consideration. In my neighborhood, there's a Safeway directly across the street from a grocery store owned by an Asian American family. I spend most of my dollars at the latter even though they don't have a unionized work force because I value a lot of other things about them. The Safeway is unionized and I go there too.

And I think there's a direct connection between your equity commitment and support for organized labor. I'm the opposite of a class-before-race person, but white supremacy and capitalism are so historically intertwined--particularly in the US--that it's nonsensical to me to think that one can attempt to address the former without also attempting to address the relationship between capital and labor. That doesn't mean I'm applying some purity test to No Man or expect more of your equity program that you're willing and able to do. My business' equity program only attempts to address a narrow set of things. I'm just saying that when I look at the whole picture, I can't help but see a linkage.
 

ramdomthought

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I’m just confused, slightly shocked, by the argument. Once again, when is the last time you asked a shop if their transportation suppliers are union or not? And then voiced a “strong” disagreement with it? That was my point. Where does this stop? People here used to patronize a shop literally called unionmade and they weren’t selling a single item that was in fact union made. In that case, I understand any backlash (which they never seemed to receive btw). But there’s nothing about us that says we take a stance on unionization. Conflagrating this with our Meals on Wheels donations or our work with antiracist organizations is kinda ridiculous IMO. They’re completely different issues altogether. We’re not a vegan company either - does this also mean some sort of hypocrisy?

I support my union brothers and sisters, as being from and in Michigan and the son of Teachers I know that my ability to shop at your store is predicated on a union fighting for fair wages and the living standard it allows.

If you guys use USPS or UPS, I'm happy to pick one of those over Fedex, DHL, or Amazon should I get the option. I also understand that you guys need to keep your lights on, and will certainly not Stop Doing Business with you because of your choice of carrier.

For me, it's less about Supporting Unions Through Everything which is a weird strawman, and more of supporting them where we can. I think it's completely fair for someone to represent why they have their preference, and I don't think anyone here is faulting you for choosing the one that is the one that makes the most economical and logistical sense for you guys.
 
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nahneun

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Hi @gdl203, can I please get a further discount and credit for the order I just received because I was inflicted severe emotional duress because your free shipping was not provided by a pro-union courier company and thus you must be more evil than Jeff Bezos and Amazon, whomst use UPS almost exclusively? TIA :inlove::inlove::inlove::inlove::inlove::inlove::inlove:

:nest::nest::nest::nest::nest:
 

WhyUEarly

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Since we're voicing customer opinion on supply chain sustainability issues, I also appreciate UPS efforts to reduce their environmental footprint and the ability for a driver to have advancement opportunities.

I will continue to shop from NMWA if they decide to use FedEx. Interesting that Greg pointed out the increased frequency of single item orders. I've been guilty of that and part of the reason is that when something I want sells out very quickly, I immediately just check out that item. Since I'm conscientious not to buy an item I am likely to return, I just buy the single item I expect to keep. Often times I find myself coming back to the site to place an order a day or two after drop days to then figure out what I missed in my rush to cop my target jawnz. I suppose it's the downside of high demand.
 

Nbarbar

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I'm with Greg, where does this stop. Don't you American's have better things to worry about than if your cashmere Doppia was delivered by a union driver or not?
 

gdl203

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Since we're voicing customer opinion on supply chain sustainability issues, I also appreciate UPS efforts to reduce their environmental footprint and the ability for a driver to have advancement opportunities.
Fedex is a 100 spots ahead of UPS in the Newsweek rankings. UPS is worse than Sunoco. What am I missing? Are there better benchmarks?
 

Man with Apple

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I'm with Greg, where does this stop. Don't you American's have better things to worry about than if your cashmere Doppia was delivered by a union driver or not?
If it were delivered by a union courier he could afford to wear his own Doppia...:nest:
 

smittycl

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I worked for UPS as a sorter for while in college. Was like working for the Gestapo.
 

WhyUEarly

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Fedex is a 100 spots ahead of UPS in the Newsweek rankings. UPS is worse than Sunoco. What am I missing? Are there better benchmarks?
I'm going to assume that you really are interested in diving into this topic. I work with ESG ratings closely for my job. Newsweek doesn't pass my muster as a top 20 rating. The gold standard for corporate sustainability is DJSI (Dow Jones Sustainability Index, now owned by S&P) and CDP (formerly Carbon Disclosure Project).

UPS made it into the DJSI World Index for 7 straight tears, is on DJSI North America Index for 15 straight years and achieved a "A" rating on CDP as recently as 2018. Fedex was last on DJSI in 2010 it seems, but did achieve A- on CDP in 2019.

Take a quick look at these respective pages and it feels like UPS devotes more resources to reporting on their ESG efforts than FedEx. That isn't to say FedEx does a poor job.



 

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