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Yohji, Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Looser Fit (Yohji Yamamoto Thread)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Ivwri, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. Ivwri

    Ivwri Well-Known Member

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    Some great conversation on here recently, been a bit busy so haven't had time to contribute unfortunately.

    The Armani connection is interesting and I am trying to remember whether Yohji lists Armani among his influences or whether he kind of developed parallel to him. That look Parker posted above is great and I would definitely like to see more of that period of Armani. Speaking of older male fashion designers, yesterday a friend of my mum saw me and said that I reminded her of Karl Lagerfeld and asked me whether I was wearing his clothing :lol:. I had to explain to her that she was probably remembering him from when he was a bit chubbier and wore quite a bit of Yohji (all the black I had on probably helped with that impression as well). I have found that not only is Yohji's clothing a great talking piece here in Nigeria, one really gets seen as working in the creative fields even if I am just wearing a black t-shirt a fairly "unremarkable" black blazer and loose pants. It still catches the eye and looks deliberate enough that people immediately seem to push one into the creative fields. I have also been asked whether I practiced Judaism or was dressing up as Jesus by two separate people. Completely threw me for a loop and I still cannot figure out what they were talking about.

    Welcome to the thread to the new posters on here and like the length of that blazer David. Must really look cool swishing about behind you :slayer:
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. syed

    syed Well-Known Member

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    I suppose a simple Yohji uniform with white shirt and long black coat could possibly make one look like a Hasid?

    [​IMG]

    Roman Vishniac's photography of Jews in the 1930's is beautiful, and at risk of trivialising, rather lovely clothing wise.

    [​IMG]

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    3 people like this.
  3. Ivwri

    Ivwri Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it must definitely be that. I didn't have a hat on though, but I guess the fact I am growing a beard and have my hair pretty nappy at this point must have really made me look like a Hasidic Jew. I still don't see the Jesus connection though lol. I did like the association though as I have always associated religious looks with contemplation and calm. Also realy like Russian Orthodox priests and monks as well.

    I just recently received a copy of August Sander: Menschen Des 20. Jahrhunderts and looking at the pictures in there really evoke a specific feel that is really gone from modern times (and modern photos). I wonder whether that is more a function of the photography or the clothing or some combination of the two, but it is awesome seeing "Young Farmer" and seeing a young guy in a full suit made from very hard wearing fabric with an air of confidence about him. A young farmer nowadays would be in jeans a shirt or tshirt and that's it. The clothing and of course the lack of colour really give off a mood that Yohji totally captures with a lot of his clothing for sure. I wonder whether it is anachronistic to want to have more of that mood back or whether one should just look to the future and focus on the faster, more hyperactive lifestyle that seems to be thrust upon us. Rick and Boris Bidjan Saberi and so on. Edgy, aggressive and almost extroverted rather than the bucolic and contemplative shown in photos like August Sander's and the ones you just posted now. Of course there is room for both kinds of people, but I wonder whether one should embrace the spirit of the times instead of being like Yohji, turning ones back to the future while being carried forward.

    Not sure whether I am expressing myself properly, but yeah...
     
  4. davidlee388

    davidlee388 Well-Known Member

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    When we are discussing Armani, we ought to be specific about which line in particular. I used to follow Armani as a young university undergraduate in the eighties, saving up from living expenses studying abroad to buy his clothes in the sale. The western fashion in the 80s was typified by huge structured shoulders, outrageous shoulder pads, big armholes leading to a fitted waist silhouette. Anyone ( without a belly lol ) can look like a fashion designer stick sketch drawing. Gianni Versace, Claude Montana, Kenzo, JPG, and of course Giorgio Armani spring to mind. However GA was more conversative in that approach, Yohji in that era offered oversized shoulders but with dropped shoulder pads, plus oversized everywhere of course.

    GA in the 80s then offered Giorgio Armani ( the " Black " couture label ), Giorgio Armani ( the " White " diffusion line ) , Emporio Armani, Mani ( women specific ) and Armani Jeans, I think the white label has now been named Armani Collezioni. Anyway the " Armani " I used to buy ( or could afford ) were GA white label and EA which had a more relaxed cut ( but still sharp ). The Giorgio Armani couture line was/is totally different, very structured, precise silhouette, stupendous fabrics and construction with stratospheric prices to match ( much dearer than Yohji ). The clothes appear to be moulded for a classic masculine Italian Runway model. I went to the Armani Oulet ( past season's BNWT ) in Hong Kong whilst buying Yohji in Joyce Warehouse within the same building. Tried on a few blazers including a superb navy rayon blend piece. Sz 46 fitted me on the sleeves but too tight in chest, 48 fitted chest wise but way long in sleeves. In both cases the waist didn't sit right, making me assume it's tailored for someone at least 5 cm taller. Eventually I gave up.....lesson:- no matter how rich you are, if you are fat, or short with good physique, forget GA. Go Yohji, much more flattering/versatile for the everyday man.

    Armani Collezioni and EA provide a more relaxed fit and therefore more playful. I'm sure Collezioni has been available as a made-to-measure option for a while so you can deliberately factor in an oversized fit if you wish.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
    2 people like this.
  5. Guy Burgess

    Guy Burgess Well-Known Member

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    i've had Amish a few times, so maybe we're on to something!
     
  6. davidlee388

    davidlee388 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Guy, when can we see your AW09 Y's coat? :happy:
     
  7. syed

    syed Well-Known Member

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    All fashion necessarily looks back, if only because 'original' ideas are arguably impossible. New forms of expression? Sure. New tools of expression? Sure. New translations of expression? Sure. But not exactly entirely new ideas. That is not to say that fashion can never bring something new to the table, indeed anything but (and I fully support and am excited by innovation and new ways of looking/approaching an idea), however fashion's relationship with the past is by nature paradoxical. Fashion needs to be of the moment (although I always say it needs to be "of the moment just after now"), and so it must necessarily be different from what went just before. However once enough time passes, everything is fair game, and so we have this cultural/temporal chaos where designers pluck ideas and motifs out of the past to create something new each season i.e. your average designer who creates a new story and new look every season.

    However this is not the approach that Yohji posits, or indeed the two designers you mentioned - Rick and Boris. With Yohji we all know that every season is a continuation, a meditation within his own lexicon and stylistic language. It looks to the past in order to move forward, and he does so comfortably. Rick is similar in that he says he has within hm every collection he will ever do, he just needs to realize it. He talks of telling the same story every season but from a different angle, and I really like that idea. As such I think both designers share an affinity in this respect, in that they do not necessarily operate within fashion's need for something radically new, but rather go at their own pace.

    I believe the difference between the two is a matter of continuation vs. appropriation. I think Yohji views his work as a continuation from history - it looks to the past for inspiration, but it is still determinedly appropriate for everyday contemporary life (just look at the jackets that have pockets for you phone, your smokes, your passport, a boarding pass, etc.). The way his work, and the work of Westwood, differ from a designer such as Galliano, who also looked to the past, is that they both treat their role as a continuation of older ideas. Yohji may explore older designs and look at vintage wear, but he subverts and reconfigures it to push it beyond a simple journey of nostalgia. It looks to the past, but it is most definitely also looking forward - looking at ideas from his perspective and discovering how much they are still needed today. Much in the same way Westwood is obsessive in her referencing of history and how garments were made, recreating pieces of armour piece by piece but in different materials and meshing it with historical references from other times. The individual elements are firmly routed in the past, but her fusing of the ideas and using them to create something that seems more like an evolution of an idea rather than a simple reimagining, is in my view more a continuation of the past, rather than a break from it.

    We then have someone like Rick, who designs very much for the modern world and the future, but who also looks back in order to create that future. He references everything from ancient Sumeria, with men in flowing robes, to Fred Astaire and the 1930s, with the high waisted suiting of Mountain (AW12). As much as he looks back however, his design is based upon a modern world and conscious futurism. His ideas are not so much a continuation of these older references, but a new imagining, an appropriation, a lens through which to create rather than a foundation upon which to build upon. I think his view of time and history is apparent in his very garments - they age quickly, they snag, they have holes, it is about rapid ageing. Compare this to the slow patina and more organic ageing of Yohji's fabrics and garments, and we see one as a rush, and one as a slow walk. I think that difference between the two is quite telling in their view/treatment of time.

    As much as Rick appears to be looking forward, I think his basic structure and design philosophy is actually quite compatible in a way when compared to Yohji. Comfort, everyday uniforms, solid basics. Of course he is by nature someone who also likes to provoke (much like Yohji really), however he tends to do so in an ostensibly far more aggressive/eye-catching manner. As much as his garments age and become beautiful ruins, the ease of his uniform and how easy it is to wear everyday in my mind belies the idea of it being suited to a hectic, fast pace lifestyle. Of course it can work perfectly for that, but it does not necessarily have to be. It can be far more reserved, as Yohji can be. I suppose with both designers it really depends on styling and choice of individual piece.
     
    8 people like this.
  8. blackakira

    blackakira Member

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    The quality of opinions on this thread is so good that i confess to screenshot certain posts. Sometimes, I feel a void when I feel something yet have nowhere near the ability needed to put it into permanence as words but I can only be happy when another is able to fill that void of mine. Syed just did that in the above but also, was able to expose me to more knowledge. Thank you sir,

    Ivwri, I hope I can check off on my list 'Have somebody attribute me to something religious'. Alright, jokes..I don't have such a list. But I feel love for the parallel one can find between religious or traditional garb and yohji or even rick owens. These clothes are devoid of wanting to portray lust, desire- which i find prevalent in the fashion of now- and are more concerned in utility, with placing its wearing in a place of contentment, romance and modesty. Maybe it is weird that I speak of pieces of cloths to 'want' but I do believe that clothes have soul because they have been formed and touched by a soul. Adding to that, being I am a practicing muslim, those traits(of utility, modesty etc) in yohji's clothes allowed me to embrace it wholeheartedly. I would go on, but my train of thought is getting so muddled that I am confusing myself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  9. vlad-s

    vlad-s Member

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    Hey, all. Not Yohji, but in my journeys I came across some footwear I quite liked and thought might possibly flow well with some of the Yohji spirit. Sadly (maybe fortunately) not my size.

    [​IMG]
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRICKERS-ST...54217?pt=Uomo_Scarpe&var=&hash=item35c0bb1aa9
    I actually own a pair with this upper pattern, but with a sleeker last and sole. This is the first that I've seen the Tricker's strap jodhpur pattern on one of the country lasts, and I quite like it. The details are a little spase compared to pre-destroyed designer footwear and the buckle is probably a little meh, but I'd love to see them after a little use.

    Also, please take my endorsement with a grain of salt, as I am certainly among the least experienced here.

    Cheers
     
  10. Guy Burgess

    Guy Burgess Well-Known Member

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    not my coat but I bought some trousers this week. 100% linen as i'm going to boil in summer. I am really not used to heat and it's starting to get warm here. Got the size 3 as they have a drawstring waist, which suits me perfectly. Code is HB-P23-308-1.

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    Also tried on the silk jacket from last season in a 3 and it's so great but I'd need a 2. Plus, I'm not sure how much i'd actually wear it, ha. EM has a lot of 3s. I tried the napoleon jacket in a 2 again and i'd probably go as far as saying it was a bit tight for what I'd want.
     
    6 people like this.
  11. davidlee388

    davidlee388 Well-Known Member

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    That's a very good fit my friend so need to post more! I am an all-black disciple lol. So I take it the pants are SS12? You are based in Australia right? Since the seasons there are the opposite to our Northern Hemisphere ones does it mean the current season is SS12 there ( hence no sale? )? Which Napolean Jacket did you try on? Hope it's not the Look 32......[​IMG]
     
  12. TWorksheets

    TWorksheets Well-Known Member

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    Both those pieces are beautiful! Do you mind if I ask where you picked them up from?

    I've actually been browsing rakuten and yahoo auctions the past few weeks looking for some simpler starter pieces, such as black or navy jackets + pants. I haven't had much luck though, and I'm starting to think my imagination is lacking, or I don't have enough familiarity with each season/line to look past the shitty photos, moth eaten garments and short sleeves...
     
  13. vlad-s

    vlad-s Member

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    Sharpservice informed me that they were having email server troubles for the past few days. Apparently they are back, in some capacity or other.

    If you're sick of lousy photos you could try browsing here:

    http://www.playful-dc.com/products/lists9.html

    Not exactly steals, but it still seems fair if something really catches your eye. And, of course, the qualtiy photography helps with that a bit. This seller is on !Yahoo as well as Rakuten, but may not necessarily list everything they've got on either of those sites, I dont think, and the photos for each garment are larger and more plentiful on their own site.

    One thing that still frustrates me, though, is a general lack of product codes, everywhere. I don't think I'm misguided in thinking that a little story, history, or whatever goes a long way towards selling a used item. Of course most of the time we're just looking for those wonderful codes that end in -100, but still It would be nice to be able to determine the collection, and if the fabric matches anything you already own.

    Speaking of the -100 fabric, I only have one old battered suit, possibly from the early 90's, with this code, and limited other jackets and pants to compare it to. The -100 fabric seems to make a garment that is smoother to touch, with very regular weave, and wrinkles beautifully when flexed. Is that everyone else's experience, or could age also be a factor, as the fibers are a little worn down and shiny over much of the garment? It seems that even in the best photographs the different variations of Yohji gabardine look nearly identical, but that in person the -100 version jumps out and demands your attention because of the tactile joy touching and wrinkling it causes.
     
    3 people like this.
  14. davidlee388

    davidlee388 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Wire.Artist.

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG][​IMG]


    YYPH AW04 Look 22 Snap Front Coat ( HJ-J18-117 ) 100% laine wool, thick, Melton Wool fabric, similar to what Limi uses for hers. Size 3, navy, He-Man wide, dropped shoulders with perfect sleeves and coat length. Half-lined in fabric, 3B working sleeves. Sensational tent-inspired construction, 2B off-centered SB closure with 2 rolls of 6 snaps from collar all the way to bottom creating a DB fit. Huge pocket flaps with eyelets and fabric pulls details. Warm coat to wear fully snapped on, amazing movement worn open, the panels can be folded over themselves, the corners upturned, etc for different silhouettes. Feels indestructible, practical and utterly unique. Epic piece.

    YYPH AW10 Studio Collection Look 13 Cardigan ( HC-K51-193 ) Black, 50/50 wool/alpaca, thick fabric but loosely knitted, size 3 voluminous fit with double layer cuffs. 7 Yohji Button closure to a high neck finish. The body has a lovely banded construction with 2 pockets.

    Y's for men AW08 Drawstring Pants ( ME-P52-074 ) 100% interlocked cotton, weighty fabric, great oversized sz 2 fit.

    YY x Adidas AW08 Leather/Fabric YY G8 Zip Boots ( HE-E02-721 ) - size 2.

    Basic SS Tee

    Motion
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    [​IMG]
     
    3 people like this.
  15. dantebykiko

    dantebykiko Well-Known Member

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    two of my gabardine jackets that im trying to sell. fit photos for the buyer, might as well post them here.

    aw02

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    aw95
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  16. the shah

    the shah Well-Known Member

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    these feel very un-Yohji-esque to me, so I'm rather hesitant about sharing them. The first is a wool/cotton yyph suit, but formalized, if you will, but rolling the trousers up and tucking in a button-down shirt paired with more formal boots. It worked for what I was going for, though normally I'd let the hems just fall onto some sneakers and wear with a tee and cap !

    the second is just a twist, I guess, loose damir trousers but not quite a yohji feel to it. I have to say, Mr. DavidLee, the jacket can be quite warm when closed -- you were right !

    and i just included the third fit because I copy/pasted and because it's a very boxy-cut 90's era CDGH+ suit so it's fun and loose and roomy !

    some fits recent

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    yyph/cdgjunya/dd/alden

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    dd/ss/yyph/qlo/dd/cdg

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    cdgh+/[cotton||qlo]/cdgcons
     
  17. the shah

    the shah Well-Known Member

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    lying furtively
    and a nicely embroidered but old piece !

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    click
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  18. davidlee388

    davidlee388 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Shah, the AW05 Look 10 fitted nicely, you managed to casualize such a serious piece successfully. Love the shoulders on you!

    I was baffled by your CDG fit with your physique until I checked you wrote " 90s " lol. Nowadays I can't even button sz L properly on CDG H+ ....

    That eBay seller also has a lovely pair of SS06 sneakers, Ivwri should go for them, perfect for Nigeria. If only they are my child feet size.....

    Finally I'm very envious of where you live :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
  19. dantebykiko

    dantebykiko Well-Known Member

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    library archives:

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    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Benesyed

    Benesyed Well-Known Member

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    Why aren't you my size :cry:
     

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