1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Y-3

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by @riss, Sep 28, 2004.

  1. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,141
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Hmm, I personally think discussion of designer items would be nice as well. I currently am in a professional career (managing director of a software company) and as such am wearing suits about half of the time, so discussion of formal clothing is good, but I do also enjoy discussing designer wear.
     
  2. Brian SD

    Brian SD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,760
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Location:
    Tokyo
    I don't see people hating on dior homme here. Don't know where you're getting that from, man. I can think of several users here off the top of my head who are very knowledgeable about streetwear and would probably be very likely to show a surprising amount of education, should you actually make a tactful attempt at discussion.

    To add (from LA Guy),

    Did this not satisfy you? Since I missed the original discussion, and Dior Homme and other edgy designers are something I feel strongly about, now is the best time to engage, I suppose.

    How Dior Homme fits the models is not how Dior Homme fits in real life anyway. I don't know what sizes the models are wearing, but I'm of a very similar build to them, and 36R in Dior Homme is still baggy on me. It has, as LA Guy rightfully pointed out, a straight, linear emphasis. It looks oversized and linear, and does not create the wrinkles and streetish appearance that it looks on Slimane's runway. They must make size 34R's for the models or something so that they look as tight-fitted as they do.

    Like most of the other designer-enthused people here, I do appreciate and like Slimane's designs, but much prefer other designers, my favorites being Yohji Yamamoto, Jil Sander and Helmut Lang - all of which give me a much better fit with blazers and general wear than Dior Homme.
     
  3. @riss

    @riss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    i agree and disagree with the fit issue. i have a decent amount of lang and some jil sander, but the dior is a tighter fit for me. i wear the 36R as well and i had it taken in to make it a little skinnier. when i was buying, i was initially looking at the lang 2-button, but that was a considerably looser fit for me. now, i do agree that for the shows they pin the model's clothing and take it in to a degree that you can't have off the rack. however you can have the stuff taken in if that's what you're into. i was in the streatwear department at Harrod's last year and one of the salesmen was wearing the tightest d-homme i'd ever seen in pics or in person. he just tweaked it to his own specifications, which is what any designer is doing in their shows and which is why no off the rack stuff ever quite fits like it fits the models.
     
  4. LabelKing

    LabelKing Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    25,745
    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Location:
    Constantinople
    Dior Homme has somewhat sporadic sizing.

    Their 36 is rather large in my opinion, and thus either needs to be taken in or the other method is to order a 34.

    Like Versace's 36 is fairly true to size.
     
  5. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,141
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I would have to agree about their sizing. I somehow found a Euro 56 Dior suit on ebay for a reasonably good deal, which translates to about a 42-44R in US sizing (perhaps closer to the 42) 44R is close to perfect on me, perhaps a bit roomy in the chest, but the Dior is a fairly tight fit, even though its ostensible size would be 2 inches larger than what I wear. It's also a medium grey color which is not particularly flattering on me, I may just flip it on ebay.
     
  6. Brian SD

    Brian SD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,760
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Location:
    Tokyo
    I've looked all over for D-Homme in 34R, and it seems to be impossible to acquire, and even more impossible to acquire at an affordable price. Considering the fact that Jil Sander fits me perfectly at 36R, might as well stick with what I love. Aside from a perfect fit, the quality (full-canvassed, superb stitching) on the Jil Sander surpasses Dior Homme's rigid feel.
     
  7. @riss

    @riss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    i kind of like the d-homme's feel. in any interview you can find, slimane states that his emphasis was never on precious materials, but rather on form. in his interview on hintmag.com he says, "I am not at all into traditional technique...For me, it's so much about the way people wear clothes, the way they behave, not so much about the clothes themselves." his whole point is to be minimal, which negates the use of opulent, luxurious fabrics and is usually monochromatic. i've seen the equivalent of a 34R at colette in paris and at the d-homme boutique in milan. the sizing may be a little different stateside. jil sander is cool again now that she's back, but it suffered under milan vukmirovic. you can't knock dior for the fabrics though.
     
  8. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,236
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    The quote is correct, but I disagree with your interpretation, based on other interviews I've read. What Hedi Slimane is interested in is designing clothes that make the wearer conform to a certain bearing (military) and way of moving (sort of powerful and fluid); in other words, having the clothes wear you, rather than the opposite, which is what a lot of other designers, especially streetwear designers, aspire to. To this effect, he uses techniques in cutting and manufacture formerly relegated to women's haute couture. His fabrics are not, in general, supposed to be flowing and conforming to the wearer's body, so one can hardly fault him for his deliberate use of fabrics that do not do so in the way we've come to think of "flowing". Still, I prefer the cutting and the styles of other designers with similar aesthetics. In particular, I like the cutting of Ennio Capasa at Costume National much, much more.
     
  9. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,236
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    BTW, 34 and 36R? How skinny are you guys? I'm a pretty normal shaped guy, by any standard (sample sales are great for me - a 40R usually fits me well, regardless of the designer). But in Dior Homme, I usually need a 42R. The 40R fits, but are often super tight around the shoulders and chest (to the point that I'm afraid of bursting the seams), and slightly uncomfortable around the torso. Still, for skinny clothes, you can't beat Balenciaga though. I can barely fit into a 42R shirt, and a 44 fits me the way a Prada 41/16 does. It's crazy. I can go from a small (in Abboud and other American brands, including some Varvatos pieces (for which I'm either 48 or 50 Eu) to extra large in one jump.
     
  10. color_reporter

    color_reporter Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    I have a Dior Homme coat in size 38R, which is my usual size, and I think it fits me fairly well. I'm 5'10'', 145lbs, and 30 waist. The coat is the only Dior Homme item I have so maybe other items might differ. By the way, @riss if you really like Dior Homme go visit: http://groups.msn.com/diorhomme And I hope you don't bankrupt yourself buying Dior stuff.
     
  11. @riss

    @riss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    i completely agree with your point about movement and don't quite see how its in opposition to what i was saying. i need to find a more precise quote (which i have in my head, but can't find online) about how he's not interested in precious fabrics, not solely for reasons of movement, but simply because he's not interested in opulent materials. his whole style is based on minimalism, in his furniture designs, in his photography books, have you seen the new watch he just designed?

    i like a good deal of costume national's stuff. for instance, at the shop in soho there was a scarf very similar to one i was interested in at dior and for about half the price. however, i would probably be interested in wearing 70-80% of what i see in dior or helmut lang. over 50% of what i see from costume national i wouldn't rock.
     
  12. @riss

    @riss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    balenciaga is super skinny to the point where i had trouble squeezing into some trousers i tried on a couple of months back. its not really my style so much anyway, though. i don't really think i'm super skinny--6" about 155lbs. anyway, i i went to school with a kid who did some modelling for dior and prada and he was a little thicker than i am, so i can't see how dior doesn't fit people who aren't waif-like. also, i believe brad pitt got married in dior and he's certainly not "anorexic".
     
  13. @riss

    @riss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    i respect what you're saying and i agree that the style is informed by 60's skinny suits and plenty of minimalism, which in large part does indeed derive from bauhaus ideals. but i don't think that much of slimane's clientele would be ignorant of this. i think the kids rocking dior in colette are definitely reading books on bauhaus furniture/ architecture and plenty of them are listening to the stones. i also think that there is hardly anything that's extremely original out there. i just happen to like slimane's overall aesthetic. the d-homme high tops resemble nike dunks, but i just happen to think dunks are cool too. for all the talk about originality, it surprises me that nobody has mention kawakubo at comme des garcons on the forum...
     
  14. T4phage

    T4phage Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    Originally posted by LA Guy:
    Very interesting LA Guy. But I for one cannot see this in his runway shows/ads. One cannot describe his models/image as being/moving "powerully and fluid", more like "clueless" in my opinion. As for the "military bearing", if I squint hard enough I can see some stylistic cues.... but still.... [​IMG] I personally don't like Slimane's offerings.
     
  15. Nick M

    Nick M Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,491
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I'm in agreement with CTGuy - there's an element of hype and name recognition which adds to the price of any label, whether it be Armani or Kiton: And for me, the Dior Homme hype far outweighs the quality of the garments. If I'm going to shell out designer money for clothing, I'd like for it to be something I couldn't possibly get anywhere else, either in terms of design or in quality of fabrics, and Dior Homme doesn't deliver. To use the example of the skinny ties in the Dior Homme collection - one could make an argument that for Slimane, they represent an homage to 50s/60s aesthetics, or a rebellion against wage-slave conformity, or whatever, but I -perhaps overly cynically - see it as the fact that wide ties were recently fashionable, thus everyone has a few, and so by making skinny ties hip again, people are going to have to buy more product. If I want to buy a skinny black tie, I'll get one at Tie Rack - after all, Slimane isn't interested in opulent materials, so it'll be pretty much the same, right? Again, though, if D-Homme is a good fit, and the styling is flattering on you, then you should go for that - but my money goes to color and pattern, generally. Â [​IMG]
     
  16. Brian SD

    Brian SD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,760
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Location:
    Tokyo
    On sizing: I could definitely wear 36R in Dior Homme, but I'm just saying, to get the desired affect - the real Hedi Slimane look - you'd have to get ultra tight, which I am surprised that I cannot get, even with the 36R. That is why I think Dior Homme was designed with more athletic / average builds in mind, but creating ultra slim clothes for the models. Like I said, other 36Rs fit me fine, but I think Labelking was exactly right, that Dior Home has a really weird 36R.

    I am actually a fan of Hedi Slimane YSL era, more than I am a fan of the Dior era. It has the same sharp, architectural lines, but doesn't look so Hot Topic-esque as Dior Homme.
     
  17. color_reporter

    color_reporter Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    I do not agree Dior Homme and Hedi Slimane built themselves by hype and a gimmicky marketing strategy of high price and exclusiveness. Maybe it's overhyped NOW but I remember seeing his first collection for Dior and being completely blown away. I had never heard of the name Hedi Slimane. I didn't even care to learn his name and only remembered Dior Homme. But after seeing subsequent collections, i.e. Red and Reflection, that's when I became a fan of Hedi Slimane.
     
  18. @riss

    @riss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    labels like helmut lang, jil sander, miu-miu, dior, even agnes b all make/have been making skinny ties. they've been fashionable again for years. the skinny tie is a staple particularly for lang and dior, but i don't see that slimane was just flipping the wider-tie model on its head. the skinny tie is in every single helmut lang collection i've ever seen and some of his are even skinnier than those at dior. the dior is way pricier than the others, but his whole collection is ridiculously priced. name has alot to do with this, absolutely. people will shell out extra cash for the fly, or whatever it is, that's stitched on the dior version. but what designer doesn't live off of name? why does a gucci t-shirt cost $250? i agree that you could have a slimane look on your own if you scoured thrift shops and customized your clothes. he even says that the kids who catch his eye in berlin are not wearing designer gear.
     
  19. @riss

    @riss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    furthermore, this is all contextual. i have an hermes tie that is gorgeous and of luxurious material and pattern. this does not negate the fact that my simple cotton helmut lang skinny tie is cool as well.
     
  20. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20,008
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Location:
    New York City / Buenos Aires
    I just mention it in passing, but T&A has been making relatively skinny ties for well over 40 years now...granted they might not be "hot shit" but are quite well made and the name recognition is certainly there. Might be worth a stroll to their store on 57th in Manhattan to check them out, no?

    Jon.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by