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Wtf is happening to my shirts? (Pic.)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by CaymanS, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. mic

    mic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Location:
    New Dork City
    Shaving cream: Edge with the orange cap.

    After-shave lotion: afta (old school like Pro Tools.)

    General use lotion: Lubriderm Original.

    Razor: Mach 3.

    Soap: Dove - white (no racism; no Ghostface).

    Shampoo: Dove (same).

    Cologne: Creed Millesime Imperial (aka "get raped on the dance floor") or Gaultier - for lesser occasions - such as the gym or retrieving the mail (I buy every one that comes out - the bottle changes and the scent is adjusted slightly every year - I have so many tight-shirted men by my sink that my bathroom counter looks like a gay bar - the all-white bottle Fleur Du Male is just...it's...OK I have to stop giving away my secrets now...the game is to be $old, not to be told).

    Floss: Glide Crest Deep Clean.

    Toothpaste: Crest 3D White.

    Try as I may, I can't abandon any of these products. They're like my kids [​IMG]




    You left out your favorite hemorrhoid cream.
     
  2. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    New York City

    After-shave lotion: afta (old school like Pro Tools.)


    Isn't this a acetone based solvent that can be bought at many hardware stores and shoe cobbler's shops?

    BTW, I just switched to mitchum unscented as well. I love it, I used to use degree, but I hate scents and the solid flaked everywhere.
     
  3. stubloom

    stubloom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    297
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    The problem with deteriorating fabric in the underarms of your shirts has nothing to do with... * Dry cleaning process vs shirt laundry process * "Professional" processing vs home processing * Scrubbing underarms with a brush * Tight fit or swinging of the arms * Cleaners pressing equipment. Kuddos to Raoul Duke who opined that the problem is caused by "sweat/deodorant". The problem is caused by: * Acids and chloride salts present in perspiration, and/or * Metallic salts present in anti-perspirants. Shirt laundry is an immersion process and the entire shirt is subjected to the SAME process. Yet the problem occurs in the underarm area only. If it was the laundering process, the same problem would occur in other areas of the shirt as well. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know PRIOR to laundering whether the already slowly deteriorating fabric will deteriorate to the point that ANY stress on the fibers caused by the tumbling in the washer wheel will cause the fabric to tear. I have seen this problem before. It's currently limited to about 6 specific clients out of many hundreds. One client specifically mentioned that he used Mitchum. In all cases, I solved the problem by soaking ALL their cotton shirts overnight in a solution of ammonia and water (1 part ammonia to 5 parts cold water), rinsing gently, hang drying, and then processing as normal. The effect of the ammonia is to neutralize the acids and salts. I'm sure that you can't rely on your cleaner to do that every time. So your'e going to have to do that yourself prior to turning your shirts over to the cleaner. Soak, rinse, hang dry and only then drop them off. You'll have no problem in the future. For further information on this subject... Blog post: Are the underarms of your shirts deteriorating? http://www.ravefabricare.com/true-qu...riorating.aspx
     
  4. viator

    viator Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    708
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    In all cases, I solved the problem by soaking ALL their cotton shirts overnight in a solution of ammonia and water (1 part ammonia to 5 parts cold water), rinsing gently, hang drying, and then processing as normal. The effect of the ammonia is to neutralize the acids and salts.

    I'm sure that you can't rely on your cleaner to do that every time. So your'e going to have to do that yourself prior to turning your shirts over to the cleaner. Soak, rinse, hang dry and only then drop them off. You'll have no problem in the future.[/url]

    Or one could wear an undershirt - wouldn't that also stop this from happening?
     
  5. CaymanS

    CaymanS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    803
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    The problem with deteriorating fabric in the underarms of your shirts have nothing to do with...

    * Dry cleaning process vs shirt laundry process

    * "Professional" processing vs home processing

    * Scrubbing underarms with a brush

    * Tight fit or swinging of the arms

    * Cleaners pressing equipment.

    Kuddos to Raoul Duke who opined that the problem is caused by "sweat/deodorant".

    The problem is caused by:

    * Acids and chloride salts present in perspiration, and

    * Metallic salts present in anti-perspirants.

    Shirt laundry is an immersion process and the entire shirt is subjected to the SAME process. Yet the problem occurs in the underarm area only. If it was the laundering process, the same problem would occur in other areas of the shirt as well.

    Unfortunately, it's impossible to know PRIOR to laundering whether the already slowly deteriorating fabric will deteriorate to the point that ANY stress on the fibers caused by the tumbling in the washer wheel will cause the fabric to tear.

    I have seen this problem before. It's currently limited to about 6 specific clients out of many hundreds. One client specifically mentioned that he used Mitchum. In all cases, I solved the problem by soaking ALL their cotton shirts overnight in a solution of ammonia and water (1 part ammonia to 5 parts cold water), rinsing gently, hang drying, and then processing as normal. The effect of the ammonia is to neutralize the acids and salts.

    I'm sure that you can't rely on your cleaner to do that every time. So your'e going to have to do that yourself prior to turning your shirts over to the cleaner. Soak, rinse, hang dry and only then drop them off. You'll have no problem in the future.

    For further information on this subject...

    Blog post: Are the underarms of your shirts deteriorating?
    http://www.ravefabricare.com/true-qu...riorating.aspx


    HO. LY. SHIT. Stu Bloom, you are my frigging hero. I love you, man.

    Mitchum has got to go. R.I.P.

    Can you recommend a very mild anti-perspirant that doesn't contain these chemicals?

    On the other hand, of the 6 clients who also had this problem, can you name some other offending anti-perspirants? I would hate to switch to one that gives me the same problem(!)
     
  6. CaymanS

    CaymanS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    803
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    Feb 10, 2011
    http://www.amazon.com/Arm-Hammer-Ess...9686636&sr=8-2

    ^ Has anyone tried this stuff? Looks like there are no metallics (aluminum) in there? Very sorry to turn this into an "anti-perspirant" thread - but this change will (hopefully) save me thousands of bucks...
     
  7. Xenon

    Xenon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    602
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    The problem is caused by:

    * Acids and chloride salts present in perspiration, and/or

    * Metallic salts present in anti-perspirants.

    Shirt laundry is an immersion process and the entire shirt is subjected to the SAME process. Yet the problem occurs in the underarm area only. If it was the laundering process, the same problem would occur in other areas of the shirt as well.

    For further information on this subject...

    Blog post: Are the underarms of your shirts deteriorating?
    http://www.ravefabricare.com/true-qu...riorating.aspx



    You might be on to something here.

    Couple of things though:

    the metallic salts (Aluminium chloride, aluminium chlorohydrate, aluminium-zirconium, aluminium zirconium tetrachlorohydrex gly, aluminium zirconium trichlorohydrex gly, ect) are not very abrasive in the form present. I suspect there isn't enough pressure or heat to cause the salts to abrade

    The pH of sweat isn't likely to be strong enough to cause fiber damage

    I deduce this from my own experience using lots of anti perspirant since I am always hot. There is a substantial buildup of anti-perspirant on my shirts after one wearing/prior to laundering but I carefully and gently remove using "Stain Away" which disolves the hardenned anti-perspirant. Consequence is that I have never in over 20 years time had an issue with tearing or unusual fabric wear in arm pit area. Sometimes I leave a shirt dirty for a week or so and the sweat does yellow a bit (especially back of shirt) but thsi is always gone after washing and causes no harm to cloth. Its important to note that sweat and anti-perspirant imbedded in shirt will yellow and that this should never be left to sit for long periods or it will become much harder to get rid of.

    Also maybe you are right in that the cleaner is not properly removing the build up of anti-perspirant and under the action of high heat and pressure when being pressed it is forcing the metallic salts to abrade the cloth fiber?
     
  8. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Well-Known Member

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    New York City
    Any deodorant that actually works has these aluminiums in them.
     
  9. Ataturk

    Ataturk Well-Known Member

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    Apr 18, 2008
    I don't know enough to speak authoratively on the subject, but is it possible that the wear is caused by attempts at spot cleaning the underarms?
     
  10. CaymanS

    CaymanS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    803
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    Feb 10, 2011
    Any deodorant that actually works has these aluminiums in them.

    I don't need a strong one, anway. I shower 2x per day. The Arm & Hammer stuff should get me where I need to be. I'm gonna Amazon Prime that shit stat.
     
  11. stubloom

    stubloom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Jun 18, 2010
    Response to Ataturk: The answer is NO. I'd bet that 99% of all dry cleaners in the USA don't "treat" the underarms of shirts that are assigned to their shirt laundries in any way whatsoever. Here's what happens at a typical cleaner: Your shirts are sorted into lights and darks. Then sorted again into "starch" and "no starch" (may be "no starch", "light starch" and "heavy starch" if they have greater volume). Then they're washed in hot water with aggressive detergents and "safe" bleaches, starched to "your preference" (probably with a synthetic starch), machine pressed, assembled into orders and racked. All in the space of 4 to 6 hours. This is the shirt laundry equivalent of ordering a steak at Denny's. Given this reality, there's NO way the underarms of your shirts are being "treated" in any way. For further information on this subject.... Blog post: The shocking world of ordinary dry cleaning and shirt laundry http://www.ravefabricare.com/true-qu...t-laundry.aspx
     
  12. Don Carlos

    Don Carlos Well-Known Member

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    May 15, 2009
    I don't need a strong one, anway. I shower 2x per day. The Arm & Hammer stuff should get me where I need to be. I'm gonna Amazon Prime that shit stat.

    You didn't answer what is probably a critically important question, though: do you wear undershirts? The full t-shirt kind, where you have a layer of undershirt covering your armpits?

    I use Mitchum, and I also wear undershirts. I can't imagine that the Mitchum is even coming into contact with my dress shirts. Seems to me that Mitchum's formulation isn't substantially different from that of other high-strength antiperspirants. So you're going to have this problem with other brands if you're having it now.

    Rather than blaming the deoderant, why not wear an undershirt?
     
  13. alexanduh

    alexanduh Well-Known Member

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    689
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    Oct 15, 2010
    Location:
    Sydney
    on a more serious note, maybe you should launder one shirt at home from the same manufacturer and see whether holes are still made.
     
  14. viator

    viator Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    708
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    Aug 27, 2009
    This is the shirt laundry equivalent of ordering a steak at Denny's.
    I wonder how popular Stu is at the dry cleaning conventions. [​IMG]
     
  15. Bounder

    Bounder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,247
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    Mar 14, 2009
    First, I bet that the reason that only some customers get this problem is that there is some interaction between their sweat and the specific anti-perspirant. Sweat isn't just salt water. There is quite a bit of stuff in it. And everyone's is slightly different.

    Second, the words often get used interchangeably, but there is a big difference between anti-perspirant and deodorant. The former tries (but mostly fails, see below) to keep you from sweating. The latter tries, and mostly succeeds, in keeping you from stinking. Of course, some products are both.

    Finally, you probably don't need an anti-perspirant and you might not need a deodorant, especially if you are showering twice a day. I was shocked to discover a while ago that anti-perpirant is largely a myth. The very best reduce sweating by only about 30%. If you are mostly in an air-conditioned enviroment doing office work, the difference is negligible. If you are running around outside where it is 100 degrees, you will sweat like a pig anyway. So anti-perspirant will, for most people, have a pretty narrow range where their results are noticeable at all.

    Plus, most anti-perspirants will eventually turn your shirts yellow which wrecks them anyway.
     
  16. sangiuseppe

    sangiuseppe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    

    Sorry to resurrect this post but I am having similar problems with my shirts.

    Lately I have noticed that my armpit are stained and when I press the shirt I can still smell the sweat.
    I have tried to treat the armpit area with white vinegar before throwing the shirt into the laundry bin.
    Once a week I follow Stubloom suggestion to leave the shirts overnight in a solution of 1 part ammonia and 5 parts of water. The day after I machine wash on delicate cycle and cold water.
    Now the smell is gone, but the mother of pearl button are going bad, no longer shiny and becoming brittle.

    I don't know if the problem is the vinegar or the ammonia, but I don't want to replace all the buttons before I find out...

    Any suggestion greatly appreciated
     

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