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Working button holes

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by demeis, Feb 15, 2005.

  1. demeis

    demeis Well-Known Member

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    cuffthis i am so jelous of your wardrobe, hopefully in time i can have something even close.
     
  2. Horace

    Horace Well-Known Member

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    It's gauche to leave them open. It's the mark of the parvenu.
     
  3. Horace

    Horace Well-Known Member

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    Why is it taboo to have a dinner jacket with working buttonholes?
     
  4. Horace

    Horace Well-Known Member

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    (NoVaguy @ Feb. 15 2005,19:50) Did you just undo all of the bottom buttons just for this shot?
    Please say "Yes".
    I hope so. It's one of the most vulgar things I think you can do, in matters sartorial. It's akin to telling people how much you make, asking someone the cost of their co-op, etc.
     
  5. cuffthis

    cuffthis Well-Known Member

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    Yes, my sportcoats are on the botton rack (and the bottom rack of another set of shelves on the other side of my dressing room).

    PS - I hope it wasn't my photos that caused the shutdown of this site for bandwidth problems. If so, who do I see to make a $ donation, lol.

    And, Mark, nice to identify a fellow LL member with a board name.

    Regards,

    Tom Hudson
     
  6. Brian SD

    Brian SD Well-Known Member

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    What's on the bottom rack? Sportscoats?
    Yes, my sportcoats are on the botton rack (and the bottom rack of any set of shelves on the other side of my dressing room). PS - I hope it wasn't my photos that caused the shutdown of this site for bandwidth problems. If so, who do I see to make a $ donation, lol. And, Mark, nice to identify a fellow LL member with a board name. Regards, Tom Hudson
    Dont worry about the bandwith, unless you actually uploaded the pictures to 66.170.193.77 it had nothing to do with you [​IMG]
     
  7. cuffthis

    cuffthis Well-Known Member

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    Whew, off the hook. All pictures were uploaded to Image Shack. Guess I owe the folks at Image Shack a donation now.
     
  8. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

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    (Manton @ Feb. 15 2005,16:51)
    Did you just undo all of the bottom buttons just for this shot?
    Please say "Yes".
    I hope so. It's one of the most vulgar things I think you can do, in matters sartorial. It's akin to telling people how much you make, asking someone the cost of their co-op, etc.
    Ah, no. Aside from the practical uses of workable buttons, there is a very good sartorial reason. The reason being that closed buttonholes are a sign of every RTW suit ever made. Every jacket inside a Men's Warehouse has closed buttonholes. Whereas, a jacket with hand-stitched working buttonholes adds a detail of not only elegance but also presences to the suit, which would normally not appear in another jacket. Hand stitched, working buttonholes are as important as lapel roll, gorge height, and every other detail which separates, say a RTW GAP jacket and a Kiton. Yes, anyone can have working buttonholes put on any old suit, even hand stitched ones, but it would not pair correctly with the rest of the suit. For, the working buttonhole is just part of what makes a high-quality sartorial jacket what it is. Thus, how else would one know if the jacket indeed has workable buttonholes if one of them is not left undone? Jon.
     
  9. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    I can easily spot a working buttonhole, even when it's closed.  I don't think I could put it into words, but if I had two coats side by side, I could show you.

    Nonetheless, attempting to put it into words: real buttonholes look "thicker" or more substantial (for reasons having to do with their innards); they also look slightly "crisper" and "cleaner" because fibers from the suit cloth tend to blend into non-working buttonholes, making the demarcation between cloth and hole a touch blurry, whereas on real buttonholes the demarcation is distinct; and finally, real buttonholes will usually gape open just a touch (at least one of them will) and that is a dead giveaway.
     
  10. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    As far as dinner jackets with functional button holes, I assume someone might think to NOT have them functional because there would be no logical reason to ever having to undo them while wearing it. The true purpose of having working buttons is to undo them to work. One would never work in a dinner jacket, thus, why have working button holes? I have working buttonholes on mine, but then again, its a slight obsession of mine, and wouldnt think to own a jacket without real buttonholes.
     
  11. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    There is no rule against working buttonholes on dinner jackets. All good tailors (except A&S, whose default position is no working buttonholes on anything) will put working buttonholes on a dinner jacket as a matter of course.
     
  12. cuffthis

    cuffthis Well-Known Member

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    I closed my open buttonhole of my sport coat today in honor of this thread.

    Did this mean I don't reek as much today?
     
  13. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry about it. I am in the process of dialing down my vocabulary. I will let you know how it goes.
     
  14. Kai

    Kai Well-Known Member

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    "tacky" gets my vote
     
  15. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

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    It is tacky and useless.

    1) You have a bespoke suit
    You do not need to open your sleeves to show it is a bespoke suit. People who notice the buttonhole should be able to see that the suit fits you very well.

    2) You do not have a bespoke suit
    Why trying to make people think your suit is bespoke? People will notice it is NOT.

    The only reason to open and roll them could be because you are working in front of a PC and do not want to get used your sleeve against the table.

    May be you could do the same when you are in a hot crowded subway and you want to make free your wrists to have some air.
     
  16. Horace

    Horace Well-Known Member

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    (Horace @ Feb. 16 2005,01:20)
    Did you just undo all of the bottom buttons just for this shot?
    Please say "Yes".

    I hope so. Â It's one of the most vulgar things I think you can do, in matters sartorial. Â It's akin to telling people how much you make, asking someone the cost of their co-op, etc.
    Ah, no. Aside from the practical uses of workable buttons, there is a very good sartorial reason. The reason being that closed buttonholes are a sign of every RTW suit ever made. Every jacket inside a Men's Warehouse has closed buttonholes. Whereas, a jacket with hand-stitched working buttonholes adds a detail of not only elegance but also presences to the suit, which would normally not appear in another jacket. Hand stitched, working buttonholes are as important as lapel roll, gorge height, and every other detail which separates, say a RTW GAP jacket and a Kiton. Yes, anyone can have working buttonholes put on any old suit, even hand stitched ones, but it would not pair correctly with the rest of the suit. For, the working buttonhole is just part of what makes a high-quality sartorial jacket what it is. Thus, how else would one know if the jacket indeed has workable buttonholes if one of them is not left undone? Jon.
    Ah, no. Only the sartorially insecure need to distinguish themselves so blatantly from RTW wearers. Oh look at me, I have taste and money. Terribly noveau. Hand stitched button holes as important as lapel roll, gorge, etc? It's been too long since I looked at an LSAT, but this would make a great analogy question... Finally, who is "one" in your last sentence. I certainly hope that it isn't the wearer, for he should know. And doesn't need to remind himself by leaving his buttons undone.
     
  17. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Well-Known Member

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    It's very tacky. I never open them on a coat. I admit however doing it on top-coat, because it's easier to have a look at my watch. Anyway, my rules of "style" on that matter would be : if you are to unbutton them, unbutton the two first like Brad Pitt in Ocean's Eleven. And don't forget to wear french cuffs unfolded and without cufflinks to complete the look. [​IMG] .luc
     
  18. Gatsby

    Gatsby Well-Known Member

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    I've also had issues with the whole 'open working button-hole' idea. One of my bosses constantly wears his jacket sleeves with one or two of the buttons undone. The annoying part is that he is still considered 'very well dressed' in the office, despite commiting several sartorial faux pas IMO. Maybe I'm the only one who notices? Ironically I am starting to suspect that we might go to the same tailor, at least for shirts.. I saw him wearing a check-herringbone pattern fabric which I'm afraid I may have also selected in my last shirt order...with even the same collar (different cuffs though). I rue the day that we both end up in the office with the same shirt.. [​IMG] Anyhow, several months ago after getting my first MTM suit made, specifically with working buttonholes, I felt appalled that others were flaunting their own suits with such abandon. I have since consoled myself with this maxim: I dress only for myself. Perhaps the biggest violation when wearing clothes would be to "dress to impress", rather than as a form of self expression. I don't care that people don't notice my $600 C&J limited-edition handgrades, yet fawn over $300 Gucci loafers. That said, if opening your buttonholes is part of your own personal style, then so be it. But if it's simply to scream for attention, then sew them closed my friend.
     
  19. demeis

    demeis Well-Known Member

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    for me there is about a 1/8 to a 1/4 inch gap between the last buttons. SO i feel it would look better to leave it open so you don't see that.
     
  20. ernest

    ernest Well-Known Member

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    And what about opening all?
     

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